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Bronze Contributor II
tlb
Posts: 161
Registered: ‎03-17-2013
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Re: HDMI plug or component cables on an HD set top box?

[ Edited ]

Isn't this interesting...this thread had 2 pages on Sunday (8/4/13) but now the 2nd page which had 2-3 posts appears to have been deleted...forum maintenance was done yesterday (Monday 8/5/13) so perhaps that's why but...I don't think so...

 

This post is now the first post on the 2nd page. Where did the previous 2nd page postings go?

MVP
TNS_2
Posts: 1,200
Registered: ‎12-16-2012
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Re: HDMI plug or component cables on an HD set top box?

Yes,  messages were lost.  Verizon has acknowledged on some threads, but says its still in reovery mode trying to restore the missing posts.

Bronze Contributor II
tlb
Posts: 161
Registered: ‎03-17-2013
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Re: HDMI plug or component cables on an HD set top box?

[ Edited ]

>>tns_2: Yes,  messages were lost.  Verizon has acknowledged on some threads, but says its still in reovery mode trying to restore the missing posts.

 

Ahhh...so my paranoid thinking is probably not appropriate...'-}}

 

 

Perhaps this will help--I often save my posts to forums:

 

>>tns_2: CC is in both cases has to be handled by the stb.  I don't see either have a particular advantage although sometimes the text is a bit sharper for one or the other.

That's because the standards weren't written to include the passing of the closed captions so that the tv's closed captions would display via the stb.

Verizon has extremely poor implementation of digital closed captioning on their stbs. Motorola stbs do not display closed captions when the digital closed caption options CC2-CC6 are chosen because the software to decode the closed captions for those digital closed caption options has not been implemented. Using a Motorola stb, digital closed caption option CC1 does display closed captions but has significant display quality problems with pixelization of the text and misproportioned text boxes. Adjusting the digital closed caption style options on a Motorola stb does not fix the problems with the display quality of digital closed caption option CC1 and no closed caption style options fix the issue with digital closed caption options CC2-CC6 not displaying captions.

Verizon tech support (via dslreports.com Verizon Direct forum) told me that none of the Verizon stbs would display closed captions when using digital closed caption options CC2-CC6 since the proper software to do this has not been implemented on any of the Verizon stbs--"Currently the set top boxes do not have the required software to decode CC2 - CC6 in HD format".

The dslreports.com Verizon Direct forum techs were quite surprised when I told them that when I had FiOS TV installed in early June (I had figured out a workaround to the issue by switching Input from Component to TV so I could use the tv-based captions), that the tech installed a Cisco stb and that digital closed caption options CC2-CC6 did indeed display captions--the tech probably thought I was crazy because while expecting it not to work, I switched to digital closed caption option CC3 (CC4, CC5 & CC6), saw the captions and started jumping up and down saying "It works! It works"...I was very happy...'-}}

The Verizon's Video Closed Caption Office insists that all Verizon stbs display captions when using digital closed caption options CC2-CC6 and that I must be the one who is at fault because I'm too stupid to know how to set the closed caption options on the stb and they completely ignore the fact that their own tech support says the complete opposite. Given my own experience and testing, Verizon's Video Closed Caption Office is totally clueless.

When I discovered that the Cisco stbs do display captions when using any of the 6 digital closed caption options, I thought that was the solution--allow users who need closed captioning to make programming accessible who now use a Motorola stb to switch to a Cisco stb (and also offer the Cisco stbs in all service areas)--but Verizon won't allow users to do that even if the service area offers Cisco stbs (some Verizon service areas only offer Motorola stbs).

I have filed an FCC closed caption complaint against Verizon to force Verizon to both acknowledge that their Motorola stbs do not display closed captions when digital closed caption options CC2-CC6 are chosen and that they need to implement the software to decode all 6 digitial closed caption options on Motorola stbs so that no matter which stbs are offered, all users who need closed captions to make programming accessible will be able to use the full range of digital closed caption options.

 

MVP
TNS_2
Posts: 1,200
Registered: ‎12-16-2012
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Re: HDMI plug or component cables on an HD set top box?

The whole bit about CC2-6 not working is incorrect.   True most channels don't carry them.  But just tried aHBO movie and CC1 was English captions and CC2 was Spanish captions. 

Bronze Contributor II
tlb
Posts: 161
Registered: ‎03-17-2013
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Re: HDMI plug or component cables on an HD set top box?

[ Edited ]

>>tns_2: The whole bit about CC2-6 not working is incorrect. True most channels don't carry them. 

 

Sorry...but...the above statements are not true.

 

In my experience--via Comcast until 6/2/13 and with the Verizon supplied Cisco stb installed 6/3/13--all captioned programming on all channels do indeed display closed captions when using FiOSTV digital closed caption options CC3-CC6 (see info on CC2 below). Only Verizon's Motorola stbs do not display closed captions when using digital closed caption options CC3-CC6 because the decoding software has not been implemented on the Motorola stbs.

 

 

 

>>But just tried aHBO movie and CC1 was English captions and CC2 was Spanish captions.

 

Digital closed caption option CC2 has been reserved (across all providers) for Spanish language closed captions--not all broadcasters/channels offer Spanish language closed captions.

 

With respect to the closed caption display when watching the HBO movie, do you have a Verizon supplied Motorola stb? If so, that's the reason you see closed captions only when using digital closed caption option CC1. As I noted above, Verizon has not implemented the software on their Motorola stbs to decode digital closed caption options CC3-CC6 and as I also noted above, I see closed captions on all captioned programming on all channels via my Verizon supplied Cisco stb when using digital closed caption options CC3-CC6.

 

 

 

MVP
TNS_2
Posts: 1,200
Registered: ‎12-16-2012
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Re: HDMI plug or component cables on an HD set top box?

[ Edited ]

tlb wrote:

>>tns_2: The whole bit about CC2-6 not working is incorrect. True most channels don't carry them. 

 

Sorry...but...the above statements are not true.

 

In my experience--via Comcast until 6/2/13 and with the Verizon supplied Cisco stb installed 6/3/13--all captioned programming on all channels do indeed display closed captions when using FiOSTV digital closed caption options CC3-CC6 (see info on CC2 below). Only Verizon's Motorola stbs do not display closed captions when using digital closed caption options CC3-CC6 because the decoding software has not been implemented on the Motorola stbs.

 

 

 

>>But just tried aHBO movie and CC1 was English captions and CC2 was Spanish captions.

 

Digital closed caption option CC2 has been reserved (across all providers) for Spanish language closed captions--not all broadcasters/channels offer Spanish language closed captions.

 

With respect to the closed caption display when watching the HBO movie, do you have a Verizon supplied Motorola stb? If so, that's the reason you see closed captions only when using digital closed caption option CC1. As I noted above, Verizon has not implemented the software on their Motorola stbs to decode digital closed caption options CC3-CC6 and as I also noted above, I see closed captions on all captioned programming on all channels via my Verizon supplied Cisco stb when using digital closed caption options CC3-CC6.

 

 

 


Your previous statement before was cc2-cc6 were not working.  I have the Motorola and as said CC2 works and yes its normally Spanish.  In fact cc3-cc6 work but apparently do not have any data most of the time.  Its built into the chipset used on the Motorola's and not a software option.    Not sure what it is you want them to show?  French, italian, Japanese, etc? 

Bronze Contributor II
tlb
Posts: 161
Registered: ‎03-17-2013
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Re: HDMI plug or component cables on an HD set top box?

[ Edited ]

I was going to make a note about CC2 and Spanish closed captions in my initial post but forgot--this is the only foreign language closed caption option and as I noted, not all broadcasters have Spanish language closed captions.

 

 

 

>>tns_2: In fact cc3-cc6 work but apparently do not have any data most of the time. 

 

As I stated in my last post, this is not correct. The data is there but for FiOSTV, only Cisco stbs display closed captions when using CC3-CC6.

 

 

 

>>Its built into the chipset used on the Motorola's and not a software option.  

 

According to Verizon's tech support it is a function of the decoding software not having been implemented in/on the chip's software: "Currently the set top boxes do not have the required software to decode CC3 - CC6 in HD format". Verizon needs to implement this at the chip level/system level--not as a user option.

 

 

 

>>Not sure what it is you want them to show?  French, italian, Japanese, etc?

 

Not quite...although I can see how you might think that given how CC2 has been implemented...'-}}

 

The issue is really with digital closed caption option CC1. The digital closed caption style options which allow one to change the font, font size, font style, font color, background color and foreground color, etc. do not work properly (not sure why but this is not restricted to Verizon as the same problem exists on the Comcast side so I think it's something in how CC1 has been coded). I find the closed captions as displayed when using digital closed caption option CC1 difficult to read--there are problems with the display quality when using a Verizon Motorola stb.

 

Digital closed caption options CC3-CC6 display closed captions in English and the digital closed caption style options do work properly so that I can set them to make the digital closed caption display in a way that is legible/readable to me--this flexibility in how digital closed captions are displayed was touted as why digital closed captions were going to be so wonderful (personally, I think they fall short).

 

Theoretically, one could program each digital closed caption option to use different digital closed caption style options set--different font, font size, font color, background/foreground color, etc. for each digital closed caption option. The reality is that few, if any, would do that and, with Verizon Cisco stbs, while digital closed caption options CC3-CC6 display captions, you can't set the style options for each option differently--well...you can but it only saves the last set of style option settings and with the exception of CC1, the last set of style option settings are used across CC3-CC6.

 

With the Cisco stb, I use digital closed caption option CC3 which I've set to my choice of the digital closed caption style settings so that the closed captions display in a more readable/legible (to me) way.

 

 

MVP
TNS_2
Posts: 1,200
Registered: ‎12-16-2012
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Re: HDMI plug or component cables on an HD set top box?

[ Edited ]

Now you are into a whole other subject.  CC display controls are on a hidden menu for the Motorolas.  From on hit power off (suggest hitting that at the STB) then ok and menu.  They work fine as far as I could tell for CC1 and cc2.  No need to talk about cc3-6 as those would only be used if additional languages were being broadcast.  If some of the cc display controls don't work right then its a firmware issue which Verizon would have to get Motorola (or however owns them these days) to fix.

Bronze Contributor II
tlb
Posts: 161
Registered: ‎03-17-2013
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Re: HDMI plug or component cables on an HD set top box?

[ Edited ]

>>tns_2: CC display controls are on a hidden menu for the Motorolas. 

 

Yes, thank you, I am aware of that hidden menu and how to access it. Using Motorola's hidden menu settings and/or the Accessibility options via the Verizon remote's Menu key does not fix the problem with the display quality issues (and the issues with the caption style options) with digital closed caption option CC1. Using the Motorola's hidden menu settings and/or the Verizon remote's Accessibility options does not fix the problem with digital closed caption options CC3-CC6 not displaying captions.

 

 

>>No need to talk about cc3-6 as those would only be used if additional languages were being broadcast.

 

That is not an accurate statement.

 

Comcast's stbs (I had Comcast for many, many years) and Verizon's Cisco stbs all display closed captions in English when digital closed caption options CC3-CC6 are used. I have not found any documentation indicating that digital closed caption options CC3-CC6 were intended for any languages other than English although I have read that sometimes CC3 (like CC2) is used for Spanish language closed captions by some of the US Spanish language broadcasters due to a technical issue (shared bandwidth) with CC1 and CC2--I, personally, have never seen Spanish language captions via CC3 but I'm not watching any of the Spanish broadcasters. Since it seems apparent that you don't need closed captions to make tv programming accessible, making a statement that "no need to talk about cc3-6..." is more than a bit dismissive when I've stated that the display quality of digital closed caption option CC1 is problematic and that using digital closed caption options CC3-CC6 make programming more accessible to me.

 

 

 

>>If some of the cc display controls don't work right then its a firmware issue which Verizon would have to get Motorola (or however owns them these days) to fix.

 

Exactly! It is a firmware issue and that's what I'm hoping to get Verizon to fix either themselves or via Motorola--the last Comcast stb I had was basically a rebranded Motorola box and digital closed caption options CC3-CC6 displayed captions so it's not technically impossible for Verizon's Motorola stbs to display captions when using digital closed caption options CC3-CC6.

MVP
TNS_2
Posts: 1,200
Registered: ‎12-16-2012
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Re: HDMI plug or component cables on an HD set top box?

Verizon FIOS is not sending CC service3-6 in general for its channels.  I actually think I saw that on a foreign language channel in NY , but cannot currently verify that while I am here in FL. 

 

Some STB's may default to showing the default CC service when you have it set to say CC3 and no service 3 is available.  I don't see that as a particular advantage, but you seem to.

 

Using HDMI the STB CC look fairly good on my TV.  Pretty much the same as when I use my Samsung's own CC to view the same FIOS channel without the STB.  Only advantage on my TV is I can reach the controls to change the CC display options easier

 

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