Re: ham radio interference
Mikie6
Enthusiast - Level 2

If you got interfence from a Ham there is hope, if its a CB operator, maybe a technical Ham

Operator in your area can help you, working with the ARRL ( American Radio Relay League).

OK, I am a HAM Radio Operator (BAD Guy) maybe if you think all Hams are bad, it's not the case in most cases.

I am an Electronics Engineer for 25 + years in the RF/EMI field, always willing to help, no matter who fault it is !

Do it for a living in the Electronics Field, with RFI Analyzers.

 A few of us HAM Operators  have Engineering backgrounds, if the Ham won't help or does not seem that knowledgeable

contact the ARRL in Newington, Conn via their web site.listed below.

They have Liason people there to help and more often than not, a remedy, shielding to the 

Fios Equipment, or his equipment could be much quicker  than any FCC complaint.

Most technical Hams would certainly work with you, If not, ARRL will get Local Hams( most likely Engineers)  to interface between you and the Ham Operator.

A lot of new cheap unshielded equipment like switching Power Supply Units from China radiate out RFI

as well as are affected by RFI by the Ham, so it's a 2 way street, most likely, he most likely hear's some interference

from you as well. The new Cheap Electronics for the consumer are now in unshielded Plastic Cases, and if a Ham with 

just a few 100 watts from the Ham Operator can play havoc on such equipment. 

The Customer Service Verizon foks at the 1st level are not that technical, but when you get RFI Enginner to 

talk to Another RFI Engineer that is a Ham Person from ARRL, you might be surprised that the

support will be great and a lot of times, the Ham may even be willing to replace a defective RFI bad Power Supply with

a RFI proof Linear supply that does not allow signals to pass thru ( Bilaterally )  from his station to your equipment or the other way thru  your Fios equipment to his Ham equipment. Most RFI pass thru power lines or

speaker lines and adding Ferrite Isolators can in most cases eliminate the problem. One can get EMI 

supression strips to prevent stray RF getting into such units from FIOS. 

If he ( Ham Operator) is not cooperative, it's probably he got some noise RFI hash noise from your FIOS Equipment falling into his radio ham receiver. At that point, he may not  be really very helpful, since he hears noise from your FIOS equipment making noises in his equipment. So remember, a solution can be both be positive for you and the Ham Operator.

If he will not help, Contact the ARRL and FIOS and together a solution can be found.

This will be a Win-Win situation, make a new neighbor friend now and he may help you later, no mater what the issue is.

Ham are people too and can be friendly, it take both parties to work together to resolve the problem.

Please Note:

:A bit of Diplomacy is needed, both have to give it a try, Possibly the Ham Operator can agree that he can help you with filters, AC supression RFI strips to eliminate the problem, My  Golden rule: I Never Operate during Super Bowl Games, etc, might work out., but it's better to fix the problem

rather than just band-aid solutions with schedules.

 

Working with him (Ham-Operator), the Techical FIOS Technican and possble Technical  Folks at ARRL may be a way to help both parties.

 

Seen issues, where Part 15, says the FIOS equipment can not cause interference to a licensed station, so complaints to the FCC may just make the situation worse, when the whole issue could have been resolved with a replacement RFI proof 48V supply from Verizon FIOS or an RFI AC Power strip (suppressors ( Trip-Lite) with 60dB suppression used both at your house and  at his house can solve these issues if interference comes thru AC mains rather than thru the air.

 

Part 15 equipment must take interference and not protected by the FCC, so what should you do, 

Try to the Ham to help you identify the issue, work with Verizon FIOS and with their help,

alternate RFI proof FIOS units, more RFI proof power supplies are available (linear rather than switching types) , better shielded CAT cables, Ferrite RFI blocks in Audio cables can solve about 90 % of the cases. 

 

Seen someimes better Electrical Grounding in old houses get rid of the problem as well. Going from

2 wire plugs to 3 wire plugs that have a ground.

Talk to him, If he got an Exrtra Class License, he is most likely technical, if not, bet there another Ham that willing to help locate the issue.

Contact ARRL via internet, they will contact him with an RFI Engineer and hopefully it can be resolved.

http://www.arrl.org/radio-frequency-interference-rfi

Seen many Part 15 devices that get interference from these poorly shielded 

Power Units supplied from FIOS.

Could simply get a RFI supression Power AC strip ( Trip-Lite) to eliminate a lot of this stuff. 

Bet the Ham Operator has a few just laying around he will give you for free or borrow just to try to

see if this eliminate's the problem..

Believe it or not, RFI can be a 2 way street, so the Ham would like to see the problem

go away as well.

Hope Verizon Customer Support sees this, they can learn a lot.

see You tube link on Verizon Fios problem - Switching Supplies, poor shielding, etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCyczCR79p8

http://www.eham.net/ehamforum/smf/index.php?topic=56699.0

http://forums.verizon.com/t5/FiOS-Internet/Interference-from-Verizon-Fios-on-Ham-Radio-equipment/td-...

http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?222662-Noise-from-Verizon-FIOS-finding-it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRqYNDW-934

Mike 

Professional Electronics Engineer  & Ham Radio/Amatuer Radio Operator + 25 years 

RFI & RF Systems Engineer BSEE/MSEE FCC Professional Radio Telephoned Licensed 

Southern California.

Re: ham radio interference
Mikie6
Enthusiast - Level 2

One Extra bit of information,  for those switching from copper land line to Veizon FIOS

for those out there ! 

Verizon can be fined under Part 15 if RFI interferes with a Licensed Radio Station according to FCC Rules

So, it is best to understand and fix the problem correctly Verizon !

See Broadband Noise from 14MHz all the way up to 432MHz with 8 - 15KHZ noise spike in RF Spectrum

Analyzer in next door neighbor FIOS installation. THE PSU unit radiates out thru neighbor old existing CATV

distribution cabling 75 ohm wiring existing Antenna !  

You guys did a sloppy job, bad engineering practices on part of Verizon pushing FIOS down everyone's throat. 

The service technicians I see in the Field have no clue what was going on !!

Get educated Verizon Technical Services for FIOS.

A real story below from a Ham Operator that had me look at his at his problem the other day with his neighbor

that switched from cooper land-line phone to Verizon FIOS.

Consumers beware of Verizon, read below: 

YOUR FIOS INSTALLATION--> EXCESS CABLES IN HOUSE ACT LIKE ANTENNA's WHICH
PICK UP HAM RADIO INTERFERENCE MORE EASILY AND GIVE OUT INTERFERENCE AS WELL,

ATTN VERIZON FIOS: Technical Information 

Sloppy Installation causes more problems for Home Owners next to Ham Radio Licensed Stations 

These FIOS boxes are a huge source of RF interference. I have the service and the interface box (FIU) radiates RF similar to your "White noise" description. I have significantly reduced the emissions by placing Ferrite beads on all the interconnecting wiring and coaxial cables. My box is quieter, not as quiet as I'd like but probably more than 10 dB better than it was originally.

When my 2mtr yagi is pointed down the street across the rooftops this white noise elevates the background noise floor in excess of 10 dB. The external box is a fiber to RF converter. I wish it was fiber to the router. I don't have the TV service. But the source of the interference is radiation from the box itself and especially the coaxial cables that are carrying broadband RF. What happens is very similar to the cableTV leakage issues. If you have bad coax connections in your house, then the signal radiates all over the place.

When the verizon guys install the box, they tear up your CATV cabling to the pole distribution system. (Mash connectors, cut up the coax etc to make it hard to unsubscribe their service). This is one problem. It leaves the CATV drop unterminated and maybe with a bad coax cable. 

Then they hook up the FIU to the wireless router and TV box using existing in house coax wiring that who knows what was connected originally maybe even still. So this inhouse coax may also have broken shield or hanging connections bad splitters, switches preamps, connections to stereo gear, blown surge suppressor, bad grounding etc. 

But here is the real killer.... Listen up... If you or one of your neighbors had an antenna with a splitter in the attic or on the chimney and used it for over the air TV or FM radio reception and it does not get disconnected when the verizon or CATV guys hook up the inhouse stuff, then it ends up as a transmission antenna. 

I can clean up the box at my house and make it half tolerable... I am still pretty unhappy about the RFI, but the internet and phone service works well. But there is no way I can fight the battle on the neighbors box and wiring emissions. That really stinks...

So put ferrite on everything. Beads on the power wiring at the batt charger and FIU. Ferrites on the coax either side of the F connectors. Try to shorten the coax length from the FIU to your wireless router. Make sure the coax runs from the FIU to the TV converter are short and clean.

It might be your problem is something else. I don't have much problem on HF and the low bands. But on 50 and 144 MHz its pretty crappy.

Mike 

Professional Electronics Engineer  & Ham Radio/Amatuer Radio Operator + 25 years 

RFI & RF Systems Engineer BSEE/MSEE FCC Professional Radio Telephoned Licensed 

Southern California

 

 

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Re: ham radio interference
Mikie6
Enthusiast - Level 2

FIOS causing interfernce to Licensed Ham Radio Stations !!!

Another interesting link about Part 15 volations causing interference with FCC licensed Radio

Stations.

http://businessforums.verizon.net/t5/FiOS-Internet/Interference-from-Verizon-Fios-on-Ham-Radio-equip...

Mike 

Professional Electronics Engineer  & Ham Radio/Amatuer Radio Operator + 25 years 

RFI & RF Systems Engineer BSEE/MSEE FCC Professional Radio Telephoned Licensed 

Southern California

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Re: ham radio interference
MichaelSancto
Newbie

problem with Ham Radio is that FCC is allowing too much power without much over sight to Ham Radio operators, and they have no restriction on where they place antenna or transmitter, and it can be in tight residential neighborhood or even at apartment complex.  FCC allow as much as 1500 watts to Ham Operators.  that is ,more than average  Microwave Oven of 800 watts, ( with shielded metal box ) . cell Phone are about 0.5 watts.   There is serious health concern that such high level of electromagnetic radiation to be raduated in residential neighborhood.  Those Ham radio rule are made over 50 years ago, when we still were not aware of radiation hazard.  At that time, people are not aware of radiation hazard from nuclear power plant so on.  some how, that old rule contunued to today unckheched.

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Re: ham radio interference
intothemisty
Newbie

In response to Mike6 post dated August 14th 2013.  I have Verizon Fios and believe a great deal of rf is coming in from it on the coaxial cables, the ONT box, and the battery back up. I am not at all technical so I do not understand the jargon. In reference to the part of the post stating, " I have significantly reduced the emissions by placing Ferrite beads on all the interconnecting wiring and coaxial cables."  Can you tell me in simple laymen's terms which ones to get for the various cables/wires and how to install them?  Where you put the Ferrite beads?    Who is a reputable supplier?  I know it is  a lot of questions but this is all Greek to me.  Or perhaps you could answer some of these questions and refer me to a website that would answer the rest?

Thanks,

Sincerely,

{edited for privacy}

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Re: ham radio interference Re: MI424WR
RichPrints
Newbie

 -

Actiontec MI424WR causing ham radio interference - Yes!

I've got it and know it's coming from within the unit. Called Vzn and talked to several nice people but all were in a situation where they could only offer an upgrade to replace this router which is obsolete and not supported. The upgrade comes with a rate increase - gottcha kaching! So, here I am a loyal subscriber for years, into my second, 5th year agreement with no way out, that is, i cannot just dump my Verizon and renew for half the cost and a two year agreement from them. I've got to dump Verizon! But they have a monopoly in my area so I am waiting for 5G municiple WiFi. Good luck to companies like this.

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Re: ham radio interference
kh-gary
Moderator Emeritus

In order to keep discussion on the community current, this topic has been locked to prevent new replies. If you have a similar question or issue that you wish to discuss, then please feel free to post a new message on the most relevant board. Thanks!

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