Customers With Disabilities
Gerald_Leighton

Discontinued FTP service substitute

Status: Acknowledged
by Gerald_Leighton on ‎07-23-2011 03:45 AM - last edited on ‎09-13-2011 02:03 PM by Admin Emeritus

I received an email that my personal webspace will no longer support FTP. The email sited "security reasons" for this removal. It is true that normal FTP is completely unencrypted and probably should be removed. It is very easy to find someone's password over FTP.

 

However, if this decision is solely above security and not about selling business plans, why not support the SSH File Transfer Protocol (SFTP) instead. It was designed to replace FTP for this very reason. SFTP can be viewed as an encrypted form of FTP. Linux and I believe Macs have SFTP support out of the box and Window users can download a SFTP client Filezilla for example.

 

I personally like to hand craft my web pages in HTML myself. I am not a fan of the site builder tool because I am a little strange and like complete control. I use Linux for this very reason. I wasn't a heavy webspace user anyway. So this isn't a great loss. However, I dislike losing something I used to have. By replacing FTP with SFTP, I and other Verizon users can create web pages in any HTML editor we wish and upload them over a secure connection with SFTP. It will be a win for everyone.

 

Thanks for reading my rant.

 

{edited for privacy}

Status: Acknowledged
Comments
by cayz on ‎07-23-2011 08:48 AM - last edited on ‎07-23-2011 08:54 AM by Moderator

Verizon,

 

I have to agree with Gerald.

 

Whereas, as a security professional myself, I do not like using FTP, sending cleartext userid and password across the wire, the current SIteBuilder is not a viable option for a portion of your customer base, and there is no third option (such as SFTP).

 

Removing FTP and not replacing it with something such as SFTP is not "ongoing enhancements to the online customer experience", it is a removal of a service / feature / benefit of paying for the Verizon Internet service.  And whereas I'm sure the legal beagles would be quick to correct me, the "common man" would say "Hey, if I'm not going to be able to use this part of the service that I have been getting by paying $X/month, then I think I should only have to pay $X-Y amount for the new, LOWER LEVEL of service I will be getting after August 21".  Verizon has not considered this, and that just smacks of "We're Big Business And We Don't Care."

 

Adding fuel to that fire is the fact that there are at least 2 active threads in the Forum areas on this new announcement, and there has been no participation or acknowledgment of the issue by any Admin saying things like "We've heard you", or "We've copied this post to the internal message board for further discussion".

 

And, I did a forum search on the term "FTP" this morning, and found over 100 articles; most of them being discussions between customers on how to set up a simple website using something like Dreamweaver or Kompozer - all of those people, and all of the countless others those articles assisted, will now need to find another hosting site, since SiteBuilder didn't work for them in the first place.

 

If Verizon wants to get out of the WebHosting business, then please, simply tell us.

If Verizon is having problems with customers using their websites as eBay picture servers, or other "on-the-TOS-fringe", then tell us.

 

If Corporations really want to be considered as "humans" (like the recent Supreme Court decision), then they need to be "Man Enough" to have open discussions with us, their customers.  If you are having problems with specific users or activities, lets work together to resolve the issue, and not take knee-jerk "Toss The Baby Out With The Bathwater" actions that impact the larger community.

 

Thank You.

 

 

{edited for privacy}

 

 

by devjoe on ‎07-23-2011 10:03 AM

I agree, FTP has the security problem that it is completely unencrypted and therefore this is reason for replacing ti with SFTP. But suspending FTP and not supplying SFTP as a replacement shuts out all those users who make their web pages using any tool other than the awful sitebuilder. And I expect that is nearly all of them. Sitebuilder is really only useful for the complete web newbie to make a "dog page", as in "This is my web site. Here is a picture of me with my dog who is my bestest friend in the whole world!" And they hardly need 10 MB, much less the extra space you are trying to sell, for that. And that is assuming they don't get frustrated trying to figure out the bizarre interface first.

 

There is another alternative: make a way to upload my site through sitebuilder. There is already a place there to upload pictures, and it allows me to upload the whole lot of them as a zip file, but it is limited to only files with image file extensions, and rejects anything else. Allowing users to upload any set of files to their web space as a zip through the existing web interface would potentially allow a lot of users who would be shut out by the removal of FTP to still use the service.

 

 

by artisanrox on ‎07-24-2011 03:54 PM

I agree with everyone on the thread.  While I'd be happy as a clam to switch to a more secure way to upload my website data, I am a long time Verizon customer (10+ years) and have my entire site on the Verizon webspace written in hand-done XHTML.  PLease provide an alternative to FTP or I will have to search for a webhosting alternative.

by mikeveris on ‎07-25-2011 03:32 PM

Agree completely. Verizon wants to strip down its service as far as possible, judging by these "enhancements"--eliminating access to our newsgroups, eliminating access to our websites. The next "enhancement" might be eliminating our email.

by tajames1000 on ‎07-25-2011 04:12 PM

I have had my web site (tajames.net) on Verizon since 2003 with no problems (security or otherwise).  I find the site-builder utility quite inadequate, inefficient, and very inflexible. 

 

Verizon writes, "As part of our ongoing [???] enhancements to the online customer experience..." [enhancement for whom?], "...Verizon continues to ensure security for our Internet customers." As a result of this ongoing effort, Verizon Online is making modifications to the Internet access provided to you.  These modifications will occur on August 21, 2011. [To Verizon's credit, one month is more than adequate notice] For security reasons, [what are the reasons?] Verizon will no longer allow users to FTP their HTML files to the personal web site Verizon offers."  [is not FTP the method used by nearly all web developers to upload their pages?] 

 

I have not read, nor heard of a wide spread security issue involving FTP at other web hosting companies.  Why is Verizon unable or unwilling to operate their web hosting on a security par with the others.  I think that Verizon could be more forthright.  Either explain the reason or simply admit that web hosting is not consistent with the company's business plan.  Something is up, something that Verizon would rather not disclose.   

by wrhimes on ‎07-26-2011 06:20 AM

I agree with the suggestions to use a more secure protocol, but I bet there is some "enhancement" that prevents Verizon from implementing it. 

by on ‎07-26-2011 04:47 PM

Verizon....

 

     Just DON'T tell me it's "an enhancement" when it's a diminishment of my abilty to do what I was able to do before.

 

that's about it, in a nutshell.

not that anyone's really listening.

by tagryn ‎07-26-2011 07:22 PM - edited ‎07-26-2011 07:25 PM

To my eyes, the current Sitebuilder looks like just a way for Verizon to continue to promote FiOS as offering web hosting while charging the same rates, while knowing that the interface is so basic and buggy that they won't have to spend any actual resources on supporting hosting. It wouldn't surprise me if they've already transferred any staff working on web hosting to other products, which would also explain the deafening silence that cayz noted already on the SFTP proposal. Very disappointing - this is the kind of poor customer service that caused a lot of us to move over from Comcast.

 

by on ‎07-27-2011 05:34 AM

Years ago I worked for a mini-computer company. We used to have products that were what we called 'flag wavers'.

They existed so we could check-off certain boxes/features on Request for Proposals.  In theory they meet the requirements, in practices they were usually so difficult to use, and so unreliable, that as analysts you prayed no customer would ever actually try to use them,  I remember one meeting where the regioinal specialist took out a container, and dumped it on the conference room table when describing one of these products. What he had dumped out 'Slime with Worms'.

 

That's the kind of product 'sitebuilder' is. I have no doubt that eventualy Verizon will eventually charge us for the use of Sitebuilder, and that the real reason to end FTP is as a way to enhance revenue by sharing the revenue with the sitebuilder software owners. It has nothing to do with security, it is all about revenue.

by artisanrox ‎07-30-2011 10:17 AM - edited ‎07-30-2011 10:19 AM

I spent an HOUR on the phone talking to EIGHT different people, getting transferred again and again and again, telling them that I wanted to stop the extra charge for the additional storage space on my bill because of this FTP issue. 

 

I had a tech support guy try to pitch the idiotic Sitebuilder when I blew my stack, telling him I did my entire site in self-made XHTML, then got transferred here and there agian, when I was finally told by a rep that I needed to change that in my preferences myself (though he WAS able to remove the charge for the website off my current bill).

 

 

I now happily have "enhanced" my website, artisanrox DOT com,  over to the 000webserver DOT com webhost system, and like their support a LOT.

 

DON'T use Sitebuilder, folks.  Just move.

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