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Another "pre-sales" question - Routers, NIMs and Coax Oh My!

Another "pre-sales" question - Routers, NIMs and Coax Oh My!

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Nickel Contributor
Nickel Contributor
Posts: 38
Registered: ‎01-02-2009
Message 1 of 17
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I am still considering the switch from DirecTV to Verizon FIOS TV.   I have been a FIOS Internet customer since it was available (I think I was one of their first customers in my area before their TV service was ever available).  My house was built with all the LAN and phone outlets pre-wired to a central location in one of the bedroom closets, and a pair of  Cat-5 wires out to the outside of the house (one for phone and one for data).  When Verizon installed FIOS, the put ONT outside (next to phone box) and plugged the "data" Cat-5 wire into it.  In the wiring closet they installed a D-Link router (since been replaced by a Levitton-branded SMC router built for my specific wiring closet) and all the LAN outlets in the house are plugged into it.  -okay- that's the Internet part of it.

 

My DirecTV coax wiring is distributed througout the house, to a multi-switch on the inside of the garage wall (the ONT is on the outside of the same wall incidentally).  The dish is on the same wall as the ONT, so the coax cables from the dish go throught that wall and plug into the multi-switch on the other side.  What I want to do is have Verizon use the coax that is currently being used for my DirecTV installation (dont want/need any additional coax anywhere -- each TV already has two lines for a total of 6).  However, I've read that Verizon uses a different type of router that has both Cat-5 and coax connections.  I don't want to replace my current router because it fits perfectly in my wiring closet and space is limited in there, and also the coax side is in a different location and I dont want to have to run additional coax anywhere.  My coax runs to each tv site are located right next where the data/phone connections come out but they end up in different locations (phone/data to the wiring closet, coax to the garage).   Is there any way to do a FIOS TV installation using whats already there without having to run additional wires?  Thanks in advance

 

YF

16 REPLIES 16
Silver Contributor III
Silver Contributor III
Posts: 398
Registered: ‎10-09-2008
Message 2 of 17
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Using the existing coax to the TV's is the preferred method.  The normal set-up is that  coax line from the ONT will be connected to a splitter (not a switch) to send the signals to each TV.  

Some clarification: The Verizon router accepts only one coax and only has 4 LAN ports.  It will work \ can be placed anywhere there is a coax connection, including in a closet that has coax.  No other router has MoCA capabilities, though, so you have to use the Verizon-supplied (Motorola) router to de-scramble your video on demand and to put your program guide on the coax.  Not sure how many existing LAN connections you need in your closet, but as to your existing LAN, well that doesn't necessarily have to change.  The thing is that the administrative overhead to use two routers on the same account (one fiber optics line coming to your house) [the video will just be 'turned on' and then incorporated into your existing ONT, then output from the ONT into your house] is not for the casual IT person.  In fact, since that is not 'the default' configuration of Verizon, the field tech that comes to your house may not have a choice to agree to such a configuration.    If you need more than 4 LAN ports, and as long as you know how to do it or you have someone other than the Verizon Field Tech to set it up for you (again, you can do whatever you want, but only the default configuration is freely supported by Verizon), you can run 1 ethernet cord from one of the LAN ports on the Verizon router into your existing router's WAN port.   Then you would need to turn off your router's DHCP server and use the Verizon router's DHCP server. 

 

Or, assign static IP's to your Verizon set-top boxes for your TV's, listing those in your verizon router, and turning off the DHCP server on the Verizon router, keeping the LAN ethernet from the Verizon router to your router, using DHCP server for your computers on your router. 

 

 

cjacobs001
Nickel Contributor
Nickel Contributor
Posts: 38
Registered: ‎01-02-2009
Message 3 of 17
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@cjacobs001 wrote:

Using the existing coax to the TV's is the preferred method.  The normal set-up is that  coax line from the ONT will be connected to a splitter (not a switch) to send the signals to each TV.  

Some clarification: The Verizon router accepts only one coax and only has 4 LAN ports.  It will work \ can be placed anywhere there is a coax connection, including in a closet that has coax.  No other router has MoCA capabilities, though, so you have to use the Verizon-supplied (Motorola) router to de-scramble your video on demand and to put your program guide on the coax.  Not sure how many existing LAN connections you need in your closet, but as to your existing LAN, well that doesn't necessarily have to change.  The thing is that the administrative overhead to use two routers on the same account (one fiber optics line coming to your house) [the video will just be 'turned on' and then incorporated into your existing ONT, then output from the ONT into your house] is not for the casual IT person.  In fact, since that is not 'the default' configuration of Verizon, the field tech that comes to your house may not have a choice to agree to such a configuration.    If you need more than 4 LAN ports, and as long as you know how to do it or you have someone other than the Verizon Field Tech to set it up for you (again, you can do whatever you want, but only the default configuration is freely supported by Verizon), you can run 1 ethernet cord from one of the LAN ports on the Verizon router into your existing router's WAN port.   Then you would need to turn off your router's DHCP server and use the Verizon router's DHCP server. 

 

Or, assign static IP's to your Verizon set-top boxes for your TV's, listing those in your verizon router, and turning off the DHCP server on the Verizon router, keeping the LAN ethernet from the Verizon router to your router, using DHCP server for your computers on your router. 

 

 


Ok...I tried to understand what you posted, but now I think I'm even more confused.  Are you saying that I must replace my router with the "MOCA" router?  Will I have a Cat-5 AND a coax cable coming out of my ONT?  Or just one of the two?  My dilemma is my Cat-5 distribution panel is in a physically separate location than where my Coax distribution panel is.... What am  I missing here?

Silver Contributor III
Silver Contributor III
Posts: 428
Registered: ‎10-11-2008
Message 4 of 17
(8,943 Views)

Here's where creativity takes place.  

 

The actiontec needs 2 things, it needs a coax connected to it from the ONT.  It also needs a source for providing ip addresses to the set top boxes.  Imagine this....Ont>ethernet to your router>Lan out from your router inputed to Wan on Verizon router...Next you have... Ont >Coax> verizon router....This should act as a nim to allow your router to distribute ip addresses to the set top boxes,  The ip addresses come from your router.

 

Look at this post from dslreports and you may get a feel for what i'm talking about.  note this post is for bridging the router, the idea applies  CLICK HERE

 

Keep i n mind this installation is a bit unusual and the field tech may not go for it depending on his level of expertise in networking.

Silver Contributor III
Silver Contributor III
Posts: 428
Registered: ‎10-11-2008
Message 5 of 17
(8,943 Views)
In response to the last question, you will have both coax and cat5...the cat5 is already existing and runnig to your closet,.  , the coax feeding the router can be wired to your dish hookups.  If you have a room that has both cat5 from your router  and coax from the dish which is near each other you may be able to put your Verizon router there as it will need both.  When I say both...one of the existing Dish coax and an ethernet feeding from your router.
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Nickel Contributor
Nickel Contributor
Posts: 38
Registered: ‎01-02-2009
Message 6 of 17
(8,918 Views)

Ok, so I figured that a picture is worth a thousand words, so here goes.  This is what I have in mind, is this possible?

 

 

My wireless access point as well as my DHCP server hang off the wired router.  I don't use the wired routers DHCP, because it won't let me assign a custom DNS server (I use OpenDNS instead of Verizon's because it has a very good filtering function -- which is good to keep the nasty stuff away from the kids).

 

Please advise....the FIOS tech is coming out Friday afternoon to do the install.  Thanks.

Silver Contributor III
Silver Contributor III
Posts: 428
Registered: ‎10-11-2008
Message 7 of 17
(8,911 Views)
That's exactly what I was suggesting.  From what I read in that link I sent you earlier That is what they were referring to.  Great drawing by the way.  Now we'll have to make sure we have the exact settings for the verizon router.  Plus you have to make sure they keep the internet using ethernet.  Some orders call for it to be converted to moca.
Silver Contributor III
Silver Contributor III
Posts: 398
Registered: ‎10-09-2008
Message 8 of 17
(8,903 Views)

"....Ont>ethernet to your router>Lan out from your router inputed to Wan on Verizon router..."    

 

To be clear, the administrative overhead to have two routers on the same account is not for the casual IT person.   The above set-up could work if you can manage it, but going to your router before going to the Verizon router means Verizon cannot remotely 'see' their equipment on the network should you have issues and need to call in for ANY network-related issue (data or video)

 

cjacobs001
Nickel Contributor
Nickel Contributor
Posts: 38
Registered: ‎01-02-2009
Message 9 of 17
(8,905 Views)

@cjacobs001 wrote:

"....Ont>ethernet to your router>Lan out from your router inputed to Wan on Verizon router..."    

 

To be clear, the administrative overhead to have two routers on the same account is not for the casual IT person.   The above set-up could work if you can manage it, but going to your router before going to the Verizon router means Verizon cannot remotely 'see' their equipment on the network should you have issues and need to call in for ANY network-related issue (data or video)

 


 

They can't "see" it now because my router is not the one they installed :-)   ...and besides I'm using Tivo's, so I don't think they need to "see" those either :-)

Nickel Contributor
Nickel Contributor
Posts: 38
Registered: ‎01-02-2009
Message 10 of 17
(8,898 Views)

@cjacobs001 wrote:

"....Ont>ethernet to your router>Lan out from your router inputed to Wan on Verizon router..."


 

 

One more question....does the line from "my" router HAVE to go into the WAN port on the Verizon router?  Can't I just plug it into a LAN port instead....don't like having to deal with multiple sub-nets.

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