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Avenger's Question Thread

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Avenger
Nickel Contributor
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Posts: 37
Registered: ‎01-08-2009

Well, I found out making the router back to the way it wa...

Message 41 of 72
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Well, I found out making the router back to the way it was is very easy (I did it 5 times after failing to make it work as a bridge)

 

I think this is the most thorough tutorial on how to do it: http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r17679150-Howto-make-ActionTec-MI424WR-a-network-bridge

 

Done this several times and realized the problem. Problem is it doesn't mention jack {word filter avoidance}  about how to hook up the router of your choice, which ports (LAN or WAN) to use on either routers, and where the ethernet cable from the PC's go into (I'm guessing it's the Linksys LAN ports) and whether or not any settings within the Linksys have to be changed. Elsewhere I read people say put the address of the router into the other. Wtf?

 

If anyone has used the actiontec as a bridge (any gamers here? bittorrent users?) or better knows how to make it function as one so that I can use my wireless Linksys WRT54G router (very popular router) I would much appreciate it. 😄

Message Edited by KaLin on 01-25-2009 02:55 PM
tsk
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Posts: 22
Registered: ‎12-31-2008

Re: Well, I found out making the router back to the way it wa...

Message 42 of 72
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This FAQ over at BBR may be helpful: http://www.dslreports.com/faq/verizonfios/3.1_Actiontec  Part 3 and Part 4 in particular should be what you are looking for.  You may want to go over this FAQ first, which has references to these configurations too: http://www.dslreports.com/faq/16077

 

There's a bit of information in those FAQs that should help answer your questions, but if you still have more that's why these forums exist Smiley Wink

 

Edit:

 

A quick bit of more detail may help:  There are two general configurations when connecting a pair of common consumer "firewall/router" devices, such as a Linksys and Actiontec.  In both cases the WAN port of the primary would connect to the internet (ONT in this case).  The difference is that in one configuration the WAN port of the secondary connects to a LAN port in the primary while in the other configuration a LAN port from each is used to connect the two.

 

I would guess LAN/LAN is probably best here.  Regardless of which router is the primary the steps are similar, which is why I referenced these FAQs.  Substitute 'secondary router' for 'actiontec' in those instructions and 'actiontec' for 'replacement router' to switch the roles. . .

Message Edited by tsk on 01-25-2009 02:48 PM
Message Edited by tsk on 01-25-2009 02:52 PM
Avenger
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Posts: 37
Registered: ‎01-08-2009

Re: Well, I found out making the router back to the way it wa...

Message 43 of 72
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I can't tell which of these

 


Is what I should read. I originally picked number 2 though, because I have only internet. It's telling me to switch to Ethernet for the ONT, which means I'll have to buy an 80' Ethernet cable. 3 and 4 has wierd steps that look nothing like what the tutorial I posted told, or like what I think I should do. I'm giving up on replacing the router at the moment (headache). Sorry for the language in my last post.
tsk
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Posts: 22
Registered: ‎12-31-2008

Re: Well, I found out making the router back to the way it wa...

Message 44 of 72
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Yes - it was probably more confusing to add those in.

 

For the moment keeping coax should be fine.   In that case the Actiontec will remain your primary router and your Linksys would be the secondary.

 

The best option would be similar to #4 with the "Actiontec" and "Replacement router" swapped.  Basically you:

  1. Leave the coax from the ONT to the Actiontec.
  2. Start with default Verizon configuration on the Actiontec.
  3. Connect your PC(s) (wired or wireless) to the Actiontec and verify everything is working.

If you want to then use your Linksys wireless instead of the Acitiontech wireless:

  1. Login to the Actiontec, click on 'Advanced' ('yes' to proceed), then click on 'IP Address Distribution' in the lower right side.
  2. At the far right on the line that indicates 'Network (Home/Office) under 'Action click on the icon for 'Edit'
  3. On the line for 'Start IP Address', make sure it starts at .3 or higher (IE: that it does not start at 192.168.1.2).  Change the last octet (number) if you need to but leave the first three untouched.  Don't forget to apply.
  4. Unless you want to use both wireless radios (Actiontec and Linksys) you should disable the wireless on the Actiontec:  Click on the big icon for 'Wireless Settings', then 'Basic Security Settings' on the left, then click 'No' under the very first option 'Turn wireless on'.  Again don't forget to apply.
  5. Connect your PC to the Linksys (LAN side).  The linksys should not yet be connected to the Actiontec
  6. Login to the Linksys and change your Linksys configuration to use 192.168.1.2 for its LAN IP instead of 192.168.1.1
  7. Disable the DHCP server on the linksys (IE: the Linksys should not give out addresses).
  8. Now connect a LAN port on the Linksys to a LAN port on the Actiontec.  The WAN port on the Linksys will not be used here.

Unfortunately I don't have a Linksys handy so I can't help with specific menu options.

 

The best idea is to go a step at a time.  Start with using just the Actiontec and once everything is working then you can add the Linksys into the mix.  With the exception of the "small" NAT table the Actiontec seems to be a competent performer.  A few have posted about issues with wireless on the Actiontec but if you plan on using your Linksys then this won't be an issue.  If the Actiontec works for you then "KISS" (keep it simple) would seem to apply.  Otherwise you have an option.

 

If you want to remove the Actiontech altogether (since you don't have FiOS TV) then you'll need to run an ethernet cable to the ONT and have it switched from coax.  Again one step at a time since you likely don't need to go that route.

 

Avenger
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Registered: ‎01-08-2009

I took a break from this and recently did what you said,...

Message 45 of 72
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I took a break from this and recently did what you said, lol, it worked...

 

I was wondering, how can I check if my PC or my Xbox 360 is optimized for the FIOS?

Avenger
Nickel Contributor
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Posts: 37
Registered: ‎01-08-2009

Re: I took a break from this and recently did what you said,...

Message 46 of 72
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I would still like to know how to find out if my computer and Xbox 360 is optimized for the FIOS connection...anyone....

 

By the way tsk, I want to know if either the primary (Actiontec) or secondary (Linksys) is using the NAT, according to your instructions, because if it's the Actiontec using it....I'm not sure why I'm using the Linksys then. Anyway where is the nat table in routers? Would that be the My Network tab in the Actiontec?

MattC
Contributor
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Registered: ‎02-20-2009

Re: Avenger's Question Thread

Message 47 of 72
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I have been a cable tech for Charter Comm and worked on many kinds of telecom and computer networked systems in my few years in the field.  I will share what I know about some things brought up on this thread...

 

About coax:  Your signal will drop a little every time there is an inline coupler to lengthen a cable–even if just a little bit.  While this amount of signal loss may be well less than 1 dB, it's still a loss, and it also represents an additional trouble point for failure and noise injection as well as atmospheric radiation (that's the lost signal bleeding away).  Corrosion can work its way into these couplers and create great signal loss in damp areas (never couple cables together outside or in a garage unless there's no other way to do it which is generally never...)  With regards to the ONT, if the ONT is indoors, of course you can couple the ONT to the Actiontec router and it should not affect the signal (or the service therefore) significantly on an all digital system.  If the signals sent over the coax from the ONT are in fact all digital to the verizon TV boxes (and I think they are), the signal loss of one or two couplers should not cause any glitches in the picture or distortions or drop-outs (black flashes).  If Verizon for some weird reason ran analog signals from the ONT then the couplers would introduce possible noticeable picture distortions on those channels that were analog.  But like I said, I don't think Verizon does that.  Cable companies however frequently do mixed mode service like that.

 

About ethernet, ONT, and Actiontec router:  I found that my service with Verizon was completely sluggish.  Their wireless router in the actiontec is only an 802.11g (54Mbps max) router.  It really blows in comparison to my Apple Airport Extreme 802.11n..  While I could plug my n router into their g router, there is a major speed penalty hit taken in terms of overall speed and response time doing such... additionally, the ports on the g router are only 100Mbps and my n router is gigabit class so it would even slow down intranet communications between my various computers here on the wireless or wired side.. The only answer was to subjugate the Actiontec to the Airport and use my preferred device in line with the ONT.  Think of the ONT as a cable modem or DSL modem that does additional stuff for telephone and TV.  That's all it is really.  Just a big translator for optical to wired digital communications.  So to do this, there are plenty of instructions online.  There is only one caveat.  You must still have the Actiontec hooked up because it feeds back into the cable system by the IP address to each cable box the on-screen menu and guide info for your program listings.  So without it, you really won't be able to watch TV.

 

How to hook up your own better/faster router directly to the ONT:  Without being too explicit, you must first pull up the config page of the actiontec and have it release the lease to the ONT so that the ONT can expect another device to be connected next that has a different MAC address.  There is another setting (I don't remember) which instructs the Actiontec not to renew the lease immediately.  Else you will have to disconnect the ethernet from the ONT to the actiontec very quickly so the Actiontec can't renew and lock its Mac back into the ONT.   Then you plug in your own router and renew the lease.  The Actiontec must then be plugged into your router by Ethernet and restarted so that it can find its routing to the internet.  Your router should be set for NAT mode or this probably won't work. 

Avenger
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Registered: ‎01-08-2009

Re: Avenger's Question Thread

Message 48 of 72
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Ok....but tell me this though..

 

What would cause a greater amount of loss? Couples Ethernet cables or coupled coax cables? I may think of getting a non-coupled wire eventually. Friggin FIOS man. You can't use your in-house coax wiring if you don't purchase their tv service. Kinda homo if you ask me.

 

Anyway, I logged on to ask the following:

 

Does the NAT have to do with how many devices are using the router? Say my brother's using wireless internet for his labtop, and so is my other brother, and my computer is connected directly to the router. Is having three devices using the router using up more "NAT" than if there was just one device?

Provider7
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Re: Avenger's Question Thread

Message 49 of 72
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@Avenger wrote:

Ok....but tell me this though..

 

What would cause a greater amount of loss? Couples Ethernet cables or coupled coax cables? I may think of getting a non-coupled wire eventually. Friggin FIOS man. You can't use your in-house coax wiring if you don't purchase their tv service. Kinda homo if you ask me.

 

Anyway, I logged on to ask the following:

 

Does the NAT have to do with how many devices are using the router? Say my brother's using wireless internet for his labtop, and so is my other brother, and my computer is connected directly to the router. Is having three devices using the router using up more "NAT" than if there was just one device?


What are you talking about?  We use the customers existing Coax...we even have a special device for doing this if the customer is a cable subscriber.  We don't do this with satellite dishes as the voltages can kill our equipment.

 

I thought the Nat table was like a log, keeping track of list of servers.  If you our your brother are into file sharing or playing counter strike, it fills up quickly and on some routers it's reported they don't f refresh fast enough.

Message Edited by Provider7 on 03-13-2009 01:45 PM
mattheww50
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Re: Avenger's Question Thread

Message 50 of 72
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I think it depends upon what you plan to do with either. Cat5 is very low loss at 10mbps, and lossy enough with 100mbps service that links are limited to 100 meters. Coax (MOCA in particular) operates at about 240mbps, so it is equivalent to at least Cat6. At the moment MOCA places the Data link in a pretty lossy part of the spectrum for the cable. All this stuff is quite sensitive to the frequencies involved. Once you get past a few hundred kilohertz, everything behaves far more like radio frequency transmission line than a simple wire with a resistance of x ohms per thousand feet.

 

Figuring out which is better for a specific applications requires detailed knowledge of the physical characteristics of each media, and the signal you want to propogate down the media. (permeability, permittivity, conductivity of the conductors, quality of the dielectric, distance between wires or wire and shield, wire gauge, quality of the insulating materials etc.

 

It isn't a simple problem with a simple answer, however each connector for each type does indeed introduce an impedance discontinuity and additional losses, as well as opportunity for all sorts of other things to go wrong.

The best cables are the ones that have no connectors or splices in them, anywhere....

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