Ethernet Data Strength Losses ????
ract
Contributor - Level 1

I know this is an unusual question, but an answer is needed to complete my internet network set-up.

As all of you probably know, devices can draw all of the amps needed in an electrical circuit regardless of the number of splits or outlets, provided each device operating does not exceed the load limits of the device, circuit breaker or wire.

It is my understanding that this is not true for the TV signal conveyed via coax cable. My understanding is that with each splitter, some signal strength is lost regardless of the number of devices in use. My set-up has many splitters; I had to use an amplifier at the incoming connection when I was with Comcast, but everything seems OK with FIOS.

I use MOCA for my network distribution throughout the house; I have found this works better than wireless, particularly for streaming video. Using MOCA data is primarily distributed via the coax cable, but is converted at each device from coax to Ethernet cable prior to connection to a device. So my question is whether there is data strength loss at the splitters under this arrangement, as is the case with the TV signal strength.

I hope the above description is understandable. Thanks for your help.

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Re: Ethernet Data Strength Losses ????
gs0b
Community Leader
Community Leader

@ract wrote:
It has generally worked well, but there are times when the system switches from HD to SD due to bandwidth (???) limitations.

There have been reports from some customers that FiOS bandwidth is suffering during evening hours.  While I've not personally seen this in my area (suburban Philly), there have been enough reports from other customers to suggest this may be a real issue.

When you see this happen, use a speedtest site on one of your computers.  If the speed test results are much less than your provisioned speed, the issue has nothing to do with your in home network.  For accurate results, use a device connected to the Ethernet port on the router.

It could also be a problem with overload elsewhere in the Internet.

Good Luck.

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Re: Ethernet Data Strength Losses ????
gs0b
Community Leader
Community Leader

Coaxial RF signal distributions and AC power distribution are different animals.  You can't compare them the way you have.

When you split a coaxial RF signal two ways, 1/2 of the power goes to each split.  Theoretically, this is a loss of 3dB, but in real life the loss is larger.  Multi-way splitters are just a number of two-way splitters chained together.  This is why a 3-way splitter has one output with less loss than the other two (think about how two two-way splitters would be arranged).

FiOS generates the RF signal right in the ONT.  It is usually much stronger than the RF signal that comes through a cable network.  As a result, a FiOS installation can tolerate more splitters before an amplifier is needed.

MoCA is an RF signal.  It is designed to move forward and backward through splitters.  It is subject to the same loss as any other RF signal.  So, yes, a MoCA signal that passes through lots of splitters will have lower energy that one that goes through fewer splitters.

But the real question is, do you care about MoCA signal strength?  The answer is no.  As long as the signal is received with good enough signal to noise ratio to allow a connection, the link will work at full speed.  If you plug in a MoCA device and it works, then you are done.  Don't worry about signal strength.

That said, if you can easily remove unneeded splitters from you coax network, you should do so.  But don't worry about it if everything is working.

You should also know that FiOS uses MoCA to communicate between the set-top-boxes and the router.  The router will create the MoCA LAN.  You can connect other MoCA devices to it, but remember that the FiOS router controls the MoCA LAN.

Enjoy.

Re: Ethernet Data Strength Losses ????
ract
Contributor - Level 1

Thanks for your prompt response and clarification.

I understand about the FIOS router being the source of the LAN in order to provide data to the STBs and DVRs. The AC power example wasn't very good but the only thing I could think of; didn't know who might try to provide a response.

The TV aspect of the system works very well; so no problem there. I don't do much video streaming. What little is done comes via Amazon prime which my wife purchased to get her packages in a hurry; she didn't know about the video element of the product. It has generally worked well, but there are times when the system switches from HD to SD due to bandwidth (???) limitations.

The coax set-up consists of a 4-way splitter coming off the ONT with three lines to the first floor, one of which serves the router. The fourth line goes to the second floor to a 2-way splitter which serves two bedrooms.

The line to one of the bedrooms goes to a 4-way splitter which serves a STB, 2 DVR's and the TV. The STB is needed for VOD because the DVRs are TiVos. The connection to the TV was locked in on Weatherscan (via clear QAM); of course, that is now useless. Based on your description of how the splitters work, I am not sure whether replacing the 4-way with a 3-way would have any significant effect. Making this decision is where I could use your help.

Ethernet service is provided to the various bedroom devices as follows. The STB and one of the DVRs have built in MoCA converters. An external MoCA converter is attached to a Ethernet switch with 4 outlets, 3 of which provide service to the TV, the other DVR and the Blu ray player. The TV is used for Amazon streaming, although the other devices can be used. I don't know whether the switch affects the Ethernet signal strength or not. If so, I could get another external MoCA converter for the TV and do away with the Ethernet switch; in this case, I would need to keep the 4-way coax splitter. The Blu ray player really doesn't need an Ethernet connection.

Thanks again for your help.

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Re: Ethernet Data Strength Losses ????
CRobGauth
Community Leader
Community Leader

Dependiing on the moca devices you are using, you may have hit a device limit.

If your router is an older one, (or any of the devices) are Moca 1.0, there is a 7 device limit (if memory serves correctly).

Could also be low signal. 3 Splitters in a row, you have reduced signal quite a bit.
First 4 way drops each one down to 1/4 of original.

Next 2 way cuts it to 1/8. Then the final 4 way cuts it to 1/32.

And if you have poor cabling (ie RG58) and the runs are of any length, you lose a lot more.

Finally, if the connectors aren't that great, it could cause even more loss.

Any way to convert so of the devices to wireless?

ANd what about running new cable (preferably RG6) back to a more common point and using an 8 way splitter (didn't do the amth to see if that is enough ports)?

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Re: Ethernet Data Strength Losses ????
gs0b
Community Leader
Community Leader

@ract wrote:
It has generally worked well, but there are times when the system switches from HD to SD due to bandwidth (???) limitations.

There have been reports from some customers that FiOS bandwidth is suffering during evening hours.  While I've not personally seen this in my area (suburban Philly), there have been enough reports from other customers to suggest this may be a real issue.

When you see this happen, use a speedtest site on one of your computers.  If the speed test results are much less than your provisioned speed, the issue has nothing to do with your in home network.  For accurate results, use a device connected to the Ethernet port on the router.

It could also be a problem with overload elsewhere in the Internet.

Good Luck.

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