FIOS not good ISP for gaming in North East, bad routing to canada and west coast.
RichAC1
Enthusiast - Level 1

http://forums.verizon.com/t5/FiOS-Internet/Keep-getting-kicked-out-of-game-MechWarrior-Online/m-p/66...

Yes the same thing has been happening to me. It also appears it was a problem back in january according to this thread....

  

http://forums.verizon.com/t5/FiOS-Internet/Routing-Latency-issues/m-p/525091/highlight/true#M34574

Here is a past MWO thread started at the same time by a verizon customer.   I believe almost all of thise users have quit fios or quit MWO.  😞

  http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/91680-higher-ping-times-after-patch/page__st__80

Many people in the game believe its due to MWO patches,  but I think thats just a placebo.  I believe it is to do with the cold winter months and verizon not being able to handle the load.    Speedtests to any west coast, specifically vancouver server,  have the same results.

 

I have called verizon, gone to live chat, spoken to many different supervisors and technicians and have gotten no help with this issue.  They basically tell me its not their problem.

After doing many traceroutes and speedtests.   It appears I am  getting routed through europe to get to canada from NY, which just doesn't make any common sense. First verizon claims the link router sending us to europe is not owned by them. Then we have to prove to them that it in fact is with public business records and WHOIS reports. Which also seemed to be the case for others in that thread back in january.

IT seems the issue in january might of been that particular router was geting overloaded  they might have fixed the circuit on that verizon link/border router in question. But now it seems the issue has been passed up the line to the next link router and now that next circuit up the line  is getting congested.

Below you can see some traceroutes when I am receiving the bad ping:

Tracing route to relay-1.mwtactics.com [70.42.29.65]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.1.1
2 9 ms 10 ms 5 ms L100.NYCMNY-VFTTP-175.verizon-gni.net [71.167.34.1]
3 11 ms 12 ms 7 ms G0-1-3-7.NYCMNY-LCR-21.verizon-gni.net [130.81.185.220]
4 94 ms 12 ms 10 ms ae0-0.NY325-BB-RTR2.verizon-gni.net [130.81.209.110]
5 9 ms 15 ms 12 ms 0.so-4-0-1.XT2.NYC4.ALTER.NET [152.63.10.29]
6 9 ms 16 ms 11 ms TenGigE0-5-0-0.GW8.NYC4.ALTER.NET [152.63.21.65]
7 28 ms 25 ms 44 ms tinet-gw.customer.alter.net [152.179.72.122]   (previous congested router routing to europe)
8 38 ms 39 ms 39 ms xe-8-2-0.tor10.ip4.tinet.net [141.136.107.98]
9 100 ms 104 ms 103 ms internap-gw.ip4.tinet.net [77.67.70.94]
10 97 ms 99 ms 98 ms border1.te7-1-bbnet1.tor001.pnap.net [70.42.24.132]
11 103 ms 103 ms 96 ms relay-1.mwtactics.com [70.42.29.65]

Trace complete.


1 1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.1.1
2 8 ms 10 ms 10 ms L100.NYCMNY-VFTTP-175.verizon-gni.net [71.167.34.1]
3 15 ms 15 ms 12 ms 130.81.185.220
4 25 ms 84 ms 12 ms ae0-0.NY325-BB-RTR2.verizon-gni.net [130.81.209.110]
5 22 ms 21 ms 10 ms 0.so-4-0-1.XT2.NYC4.ALTER.NET [152.63.10.29]
6 18 ms 16 ms 19 ms TenGigE0-7-4-0.GW8.NYC4.ALTER.NET [152.63.21.133
7 35 ms 33 ms 34 ms tinet-gw.customer.alter.net [152.179.72.122]
8 56 ms 54 ms 55 ms xe-8-2-0.tor10.ip4.tinet.net [141.136.107.98]
9 118 ms 119 ms 112 ms internap-gw.ip4.tinet.net [77.67.70.94]
10 111 ms 111 ms 109 ms border1.te7-1-bbnet1.tor001.pnap.net [70.42.24.132]
11 116 ms 111 ms 109 ms relay-1.mwtactics.com [70.42.29.65]


Here are some traceroutes when I am getting the good ping:

Tracing route to relay-1.mwtactics.com [70.42.29.65]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms 1 ms 192.168.1.1
2 10 ms 5 ms 8 ms L100.NYCMNY-VFTTP-175.verizon-gni.net [71.167.34
.1]
3 11 ms 13 ms 10 ms G0-1-3-7.NYCMNY-LCR-21.verizon-gni.net [130.81.185.220]
4 48 ms 11 ms 10 ms ae0-0.NY325-BB-RTR2.verizon-gni.net [130.81.209.110]
5 83 ms 30 ms 33 ms 0.so-4-0-1.XT2.NYC4.ALTER.NET [152.63.10.29]
6 19 ms 12 ms 23 ms TenGigE0-7-1-0.GW8.NYC4.ALTER.NET [152.63.21.125]
7 14 ms 12 ms 15 ms tinet-gw.customer.alter.net [152.179.72.122]
8 29 ms 26 ms 28 ms xe-8-2-0.tor10.ip4.tinet.net [141.136.107.98]
9 33 ms 34 ms 34 ms internap-gw.ip4.tinet.net [77.67.70.94]
10 36 ms 40 ms 44 ms border1.te7-1-bbnet1.tor001.pnap.net [70.42.24.132]
11 38 ms 40 ms 39 ms relay-1.mwtactics.com [70.42.29.65]

Trace complete.

1 1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.1.1
2 6 ms 11 ms 6 ms L100.NYCMNY-VFTTP-175.verizon-gni.net [71.167.34.1]
3 10 ms 11 ms 12 ms 130.81.185.220
4 88 ms 9 ms 11 ms ae0-0.NY325-BB-RTR2.verizon-gni.net [130.81.209.110]
5 8 ms 11 ms 11 ms 0.so-4-0-1.XT2.NYC4.ALTER.NET [152.63.10.29]
6 14 ms 21 ms 11 ms TenGigE0-7-0-4.GW8.NYC4.ALTER.NET [152.63.25.226]
7 14 ms 10 ms 10 ms tinet-gw.customer.alter.net [152.179.72.122]
8 26 ms 29 ms 28 ms xe-8-2-0.tor10.ip4.tinet.net [141.136.107.98]
9 23 ms 22 ms 22 ms internap-gw.ip4.tinet.net [77.67.70.94]
10 39 ms 39 ms 40 ms border1.te7-1-bbnet1.tor001.pnap.net [70.42.24.1
32]
11 38 ms 39 ms 39 ms relay-1.mwtactics.com [70.42.29.65]



Going from 20 ping to 100 depending on time of day,  which seems to 24 hours a day now!   is a real tease and frustrating, and when there is packet loss or excessive spikes, thats when we lose the connection,  session lost messages,  black screen issue...etc...


When reading that past thread,  The problem server back in january was tinet-gw.customer.alter.net [152.179.72.122]  (the one that routes us through europ)   but now it seems the burden has been passed up the chain to the next link/border router and circuit   internap-gw.ip4.tinet.net [77.67.70.94].

Maybe the guys back in january were able to pressure verizon to increase bandwidth on the tinet circuit on tha verizon router in NY because they actually owned that server,  even though they originally tried to lie and claim they didn't.  Even if not part of FIOS,  and after the 6th hop.    Its obvious it was theirs cause it ends with alter.net,  was right here in NYC,    WHOIS reports gave verizons email,  and business records show they bought it in 2006.

Fios doesn't contact DSL,  residential doesn't contact business...etc..  Its like this company doesn't remember how 9/11 happened!!!

BUt Now the burden is on the the next link router  which routes to internap.  And that is a german server and part of tinet.net and is a different company that verizon does not have direct access to.    Verizon would not even email  the admin for me,  which many feel is unprofessional.  

You can try emailing that admin yourself or doing some trace routes your self and calling and pressuring verizon to address the issue themselves.    

It seems verizon fios can't handle routing people to canada,  especially in the cold months of the year.  They must not be able to handle their load.   It seems verizon fios is really a scam,  and fiber optics is just a pretty name,  but in reality is no different then any other network,  except locally.    The only difference we need to look at when buying bandwidth,  is pricing period.  The fact it is fiber optics means diddly squat!  And the more people that get fios,  i predict the worse their network is going to get.

   I have sent an email to the admin of that german server  {edited for privacy}  but I would be shocked if I got any reply.  Ridiculous for verizon to suggest I do that in the first place.

People with timer warner in the same area  are getting constant 20-40 ping to MWO,  while verizon fios customers are getting terrible connections right now.

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Re: FIOS not good ISP for gaming in North East, bad routing to canada and west coast.
RichAC1
Enthusiast - Level 1

I just found out the MWO game server is actually in toronto.   And that not only does time warner  in yc get 20 ping,   comcast satellite in ny rural boondocks connections do also!   And i'm still getting over 100 ping!

It starting to feel like,  since i talk to people in Ohio and vermont who also all get 20 ping.   That verizon fios is the only ISP in the northeast that is getting bad ping to this game server...its embarrassing because people think of fios as being fast.

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Re: FIOS not good ISP for gaming in North East, bad routing to canada and west coast.
RichAC1
Enthusiast - Level 1
I had good ping all week, sitting lovely averaging 25ms. Now its saturday and I'm back to over 100 ping!! with occasional spikes to 135! Verizon is turning into comcast, actually i know guys that live in the sticks in my state and get steady 25 ping no matter what time of day or week. This is sad. Its like the more customers fios gets, the worse their network is getting. Seeing that commercial saying people should upgrade to that new 50mbs deal for better gaming makes me cringe. Because its a total fraud, or maybe they are limiting and throttling the rest of us now who don't upgrade? A verizon fios customer called me and said he plays MWO too and that probably PGI isn't paying enough for bandwidth because they are a small company. Well then why is problem starting a hop before their ISP's network? Why am I being routed through europe to get to toronoto canada? It just makes no sense. The admin of that german circuit has yet to reply back to me....
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Re: FIOS not good ISP for gaming in North East, bad routing to canada and west coast.
viafax999
Community Leader
Community Leader

I'm in the NE too and have no problems however my dns appears to resolve to a different server to yours.

C:\Users\Peter>tracert relay-1.mwtactics.com

Tracing route to relay-1.mwtactics.com [67.215.65.145]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms Westell [192.168.1.1]
2 2 ms 1 ms 1 ms L101.BSTNMA-VFTTP-66.verizon-gni.net [96.233.107
.1]
3 15 ms 11 ms 6 ms G0-3-3-7.BSTNMA-LCR-22.verizon-gni.net [130.81.1
79.24]
4 3 ms 5 ms 5 ms ae4-0.BOS-BB-RTR2.verizon-gni.net [130.81.151.84
]
5 16 ms 17 ms 16 ms 0.xe-9-0-0.BR1.NYC1.ALTER.NET [152.63.19.213]
6 * * * Request timed out.
7 15 ms 13 ms 12 ms vlan52.ebr2.NewYork2.Level3.net [4.69.138.254]
8 17 ms 17 ms 16 ms ae-46-46.ebr2.NewYork1.Level3.net [4.69.201.29]

9 12 ms 13 ms 12 ms ae-82-82.csw3.NewYork1.Level3.net [4.69.148.42]

10 14 ms 13 ms 13 ms ae-3-80.edge1.NewYork1.Level3.net [4.69.155.142]

11 17 ms 17 ms 17 ms OPEN-DNS-IN.edge1.NewYork1.Level3.net [4.78.132.
22]
12 16 ms 17 ms 16 ms 67.215.65.145

Trace complete.

As you can see in the ping results below your server looks a little sad compared to the one I hit.  It is interesting that my ping doesn't resolve the address to the hostname however the tracert obviously resolved the host name to the address 67.215.65.145

C:\Users\Peter>ping -a 70.42.29.65

Pinging relay-1.mwtactics.com [70.42.29.65] with 32 bytes of data&colon;
Reply from 70.42.29.65: bytes=32 time=78ms TTL=249
Reply from 70.42.29.65: bytes=32 time=75ms TTL=249
Reply from 70.42.29.65: bytes=32 time=78ms TTL=249
Reply from 70.42.29.65: bytes=32 time=69ms TTL=249

Ping statistics for 70.42.29.65:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 69ms, Maximum = 78ms, Average = 75ms

C:\Users\Peter>ping -a 67.215.65.145

Pinging 67.215.65.145 with 32 bytes of data&colon;
Reply from 67.215.65.145: bytes=32 time=14ms TTL=250
Reply from 67.215.65.145: bytes=32 time=16ms TTL=250
Reply from 67.215.65.145: bytes=32 time=14ms TTL=250
Reply from 67.215.65.145: bytes=32 time=16ms TTL=250

Ping statistics for 67.215.65.145:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 14ms, Maximum = 16ms, Average = 15ms

The dns on the local machine is set to my interna router 192.168.3.1

that router dsns is set to 204.194.232.200  and  204.194.234.200

A tracert to those addresses makes me think that they are Open Dns servers

My internal router is cascaded off my Verizon router whose dns is set to a pair of Verizon dns servers.  I think seveal years back I had issues with the VZ dns servers no resolving addresses and so started using Open Dns from my internal network

You may want to try those address and see if it helps.

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Re: FIOS not good ISP for gaming in North East, bad routing to canada and west coast.
RichAC1
Enthusiast - Level 1

I tried the DNS servers you use. it didn't make a difference. here is the latest traceroute I have been getting today.



Tracing route to relay-1.mwtactics.com [70.42.29.65]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms 1 ms <1 ms 192.168.1.1
2 7 ms 10 ms 5 ms L100.NYCMNY-VFTTP-175.verizon-gni.net [71.167.34.1]
3 12 ms 21 ms 11 ms G0-1-3-7.NYCMNY-LCR-21.verizon-gni.net [130.81.185.220]
4 80 ms 11 ms 11 ms ae0-0.NY325-BB-RTR2.verizon-gni.net [130.81.209.110]
5 24 ms 18 ms 35 ms 0.so-4-0-0.XT2.NYC4.ALTER.NET [152.63.9.249]
6 32 ms 18 ms 23 ms TenGigE0-7-1-0.GW8.NYC4.ALTER.NET [152.63.21.125]
7 50 ms 51 ms 54 ms tinet-gw.customer.alter.net [152.179.72.122]
8 58 ms 56 ms 57 ms xe-8-2-0.tor10.ip4.tinet.net [141.136.107.98]
9 128 ms 125 ms 122 ms internap-gw.ip4.tinet.net [77.67.70.94]
10 121 ms 125 ms 124 ms border1.te7-1-bbnet1.tor001.pnap.net [70.42.24.132]
11 123 ms 121 ms 122 ms relay-1.mwtactics.com [70.42.29.65]

Trace complete.

 Absolutely terrible. I had 25 ping for months, then starting in december gettin high ping occassionally. Then it became all the time.  I thought it was fixed since i had 25 ping all week.......and now since this morning....125 ping! the worst I've seen it!

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Re: FIOS not good ISP for gaming in North East, bad routing to canada and west coast.
RichAC1
Enthusiast - Level 1
I have good ping again, we'll see what happens this saturday....or on the next rainy day.
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Re: FIOS not good ISP for gaming in North East, bad routing to canada and west coast.
anonFios
Contributor - Level 2
Verizon Fios service in the northeast can be quite poor at times. It's unfortunate.
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Re: FIOS not good ISP for gaming in North East, bad routing to canada and west coast.
RichAC1
Enthusiast - Level 1

I've noticed my route has now changed.  I'm no longer going overseas.  I'm connecting to a verizon business router in Kansas and then switching  to another network and shooting up to toronto.  I'm not sure what has made this change...but   My end ping is excellent now and I'm hoping it stays this way.   We'll see how it goes this weekend.  Smiley LOL

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Re: FIOS not good ISP for gaming in North East, bad routing to canada and west coast.
RichAC1
Enthusiast - Level 1

Back to the same original route.   and getting 100 ping during the day and 20-25 ping at wee hours late night or early morning...

So frustrating I don't understand it.   I guess Verizon fios can't handle the amount of customers they have running netflix?

Or is it the fact they are trying to sell the higher 50mb package, which I see the commercials for>  And the commercials also state "for better gaming"  which makes me wonder.

This seems like what this debate between Verizon and FCC in front of the supreme court has been about.   Feeling very related.  Are they purposel slowing my connection down to give preference to the customers who pay for the highest package?

The commerical says for better gaming, but I guess what most people don't know,  is it is no so much bandwidth or download/upload speed that matters.   Its your latency when it comes to gaming.

Am I now a victim of what the FCC is warning us all about?

What **bleep** me off the most, is that friends with time warner have steady 25 ping always, 24 hours a day.   Even guys who live with the cows in upstate NY with comcast satellite are getting 25 ping  at all times of day.  This is embarrassing.

Its Embarrassing because people have this perception that FIOS is always faster, and I'm the guy in NY with the slowest connection to the game in toronto!....Well I guess we know the truth now,  Fios is no better then any other network,  in fact it might be worse,  and I bet the more people who subscribe,  the worse its gonna get.

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Re: FIOS not good ISP for gaming in North East, bad routing to canada and west coast.
FiosGamer
Enthusiast - Level 2

What you are seeing here has nothing at all to do with what your speed is. Latency has nothing to do with speed, it has to do with distance and network congestion. Your local ISP, no matter who it is, can not directly affect how another company (in your case Internap Network Services Corporation) routes data. Now if there was a problem in a link directly connected to your local ISP, for example:

4 94 ms 12 ms 10 ms ae0-0.NY325-BB-RTR2.verizon-gni.net [130.81.209.110]
5 9 ms 15 ms 12 ms 0.so-4-0-1.XT2.NYC4.ALTER.NET [152.63.10.29]

*from your tracert

The above link is leaving Verizon local control and entering Alter.Net control, if there was latency on a regular basis there then this should be reported to Verizon as your local ISP and that will filter up to their NOC group who will contact Alter.net and figure out the issue with that link. If the issue is a faulty link it will get fixed, if the issue is a link undergoing to much traffic its ability to handle the traffic will either be increased where possible or routed around where possible. The whole issue of peer-to-peer networking is very complex (which is what the Supreme Court was reviewing by the way) and a number of issues come into play. If the connection point only experiences high traffic sometimes on a very limited basis then generally routing some traffic to different connections is what is done.

Now in your later postes you show the following:

8 38 ms 39 ms 39 ms xe-8-2-0.tor10.ip4.tinet.net [141.136.107.98]
9 100 ms 104 ms 103 ms internap-gw.ip4.tinet.net [77.67.70.94]
10 97 ms 99 ms 98 ms border1.te7-1-bbnet1.tor001.pnap.net [70.42.24.132]
11 103 ms 103 ms 96 ms relay-1.mwtactics.com [70.42.29.65]

That clearly shows the problem is inside the tinet.net (Internap Network Services Corporation) network. This network is also the network providing the link into this game server. What does this tell us? From what you are seeing it tells us that either Internap does not have enough bandwidth to server the amount of traffic down to this server or the game company has not purchased a high enough link. The latter is unlikely. Most likely the issue is that Verizon's Fios product is growing with more and more people are trying to reach that game from the Fios network. This causes issues at the link point, which Verizon apparently has taken steps to fix as well as those internal links going down to the game servers. Now your local ISP (Verizon) cannot help the latter half of that. One can hope the end user ISP (in your case Internap Network Services Corporation) will increase their internal bandwidth or router traffic around problem areas.