Here's a hilarious article from Verizon to dispell the 'myth' of issues getting what you have requested from Netflix:
Here's my favorite part:
"One might wonder why Netflix and its transit providers were the only ones that ran into congestion issues. What it boils down to is this: these other transit and content providers took steps to ensure that there was adequate capacity for their traffic to enter our network."
Last time I checked, Verizon sells internet service to its customers; i.e., pay us and we give you access to whatever you want on the internet. It is their job to ensure that I can get the content I am paying them to deliver to me. It's ludacris to expect every content provider on the internet to investigate whether or not every internet provider on the planet has a network engineered to be able to receive large amounts of traffic from them.
I love how Verizon calls the traffic "their traffic." as if Netflix is magically sending something to them uninvited. No Verizon, the traffic in question is not Netflix's traffic, it is my traffic. I pay you for internet service, and I pay Netflix for movies, delivered in the form of packets of data across the internet. When a unicast stream of movie data leaves Netflix's servers, it is mine, I paid for it, I pay you to deliver it from them to me, and you suck at doing that during busy times of the day.
that isn't how the internet works.
Put it this way.
You want to share files with ME
If I don't have internet, can you do that?
If netflix doesn't get an ISP can they stream their videos?
So Netflix has an ISP and they pay people to get their traffic from point A to B.
They are going on the cheap and using congested ISP's on their end, that is why your HBO GO your Hulu your amazon prime, your video streaming to Verizon probably works quite well.
It's netflix's problem. they could fix this with a few mouse clicks, but they want free bandwidth. apple pays for theirs, microsoft pays for theirs, all their competitors pay for theirs.
That is unfair business practices and they are using you as a political ping pong ball trying to get their way
All I can say is wow!
Netflix offered up OpenConnect several years ago that would have prevented this problem.
Comcast solved the problem within weeks of Netflix agreeing to pay them.
FIOS exec mgmt started talking about how hard networking is after Netflix agreed to start paying FIOS.
Now this months later? Seriously? FIOS best bet is to pay Comcast to show them how they did it or raid their engineers.
07-11-2014 03:47 AM - edited 07-11-2014 03:48 AM
Yes, but I don't have to pay 16 ISPs to transfer 16 different people files. Netflix pays Cognent. As long as Cognent can handle the traffic, it's up to Verizon to provide their customers the bandwidth they're paying for. It's not Netflix's responsibility to sign up for 16 individual ISPs.
In the end it doesn't matter. The longer Verizon keeps up this fight, the more they lose. The public (by and large) is on Netflix's side of this thing and Verizon just looks worse and worse by the day.
(Btw the fact that you instantly jump to Apple as your first example of a company just shows what a sheep you are.)
Verizon is currently receiving money from Netflix to implement open connect. Recently service in my area has gotten dramatically better.
For the past two years Netflix and Verizon have been involved in a game of chicken where the injuries accrue to the customers. Both have misrepresented that facts and Verizon could have easily solved the congestion - specifically there were no technical impediments beyond their control. This was about money, it is now flowing, and relief should be coming to all.
People have a lot of acrimony towards Verizon and they have earned it in many way. Lying is just one of them.
07-11-2014 07:57 AM - edited 07-11-2014 09:51 AM
Deputy, lets not name call.
netflix pays 16 isp's.
because if they did it with one, then what happens? you guessed it, that 1 isp would get congested right?
Now you should ask yourself why is that, why can't netflix use just one ISP. because the one isp wouldnt be able to carry all that bandwidth,right?
so they have several, and have made poor business decisions where they still dont have enough bandwidth. ive been a netflix subscriber long enoigh to remember when there was no streaming. long enough to remember when they added it at no cost,and long enough to remember 3 different incidences where they put profits before me. i get your mad at your verizon bill, but guess what. im offended that they took away my 3 disc a month plan (they should have grandfathered it in) im madthat they gave me a rate increase, only to turn around and say oops we're sorry. mad enough to remember the email i got a few months back saying that in a few months ill see another rate hike.
both companies are money grabbers but netflix is the one in control. thesse are business decisions that they have made that are causing your issue. ask an apple tv owner how much trouble they havewith netflix? they will tell u very little. why is that. because netflix charged apple a premium to deliver their devices content over a premium network. and because im not an apple fan boy, i get screwed.
now they want free bandwidth that none of their competitors get. they lost that fight. now they are crying sour grapes that they have to pay. they could have done the same for you and me (like they did their apple tv customers) and routed us over links that werent saturated.
was it verizons fault that apple tv customers were routed from netflix over a premium link? no it wasnt. it was netflix's business decision.
i'm not a fan boy for either company but i call a spade a spade. netflix is in the wrong, and thats why they are choosing to ditch their current providers and go direct to the source. why,again? because they chose cheapy cogent and cogent couldnt do the job. so now they are going to comcast and verizon to do what their third tier isp's couldnt.
remember they were paying someone all along. this isnt new for them. they arent the little gu. they arent you and me and netflix executives dont relate with you.
So far, if you look at the "proof" and the assertions that were made,Netflix is making the only unsubstantiated claim. So why are you blaming verizon, I just don't understand. When they mess up I call them out on it, but this is standard practice, and if netflix felt it was unfair then they shouldn't have signed any deal. They should have been asking regulators and investigators. WHY DID THEY NOT DO THAT? Think LONG AND HARD about that. WHY? Because they knew that making a deal with comcast and verizon was a good business decision, and had nothing to do with net neutrality or legal proceedings. They know that all these issues are a direct result of their business decisions, and they have now chosen to make a new one. Ditch the saturated links, and bypass them. Ditch the company that couldn't deliver, and go with the companies that can deliver.
Every business makes similiar choices.
unfortunately we live in a society where whoever screams the loudest is thought of as being right. they distracted you with fluff, pomp and circumstance, and made you ignore the facts.
Where is Verizon Lying? Netflix is the one delivering a message that it can't back up, falsley misrepresenting things. And when pressed legally to provide the proof of the assertion, they decided to simply comply with the cease and desist letter.
Why is that?
If they were in the right, then why wouldn't they tell Verizon to go pound sand? I think we all know why.
07-11-2014 10:38 AM - edited 07-11-2014 10:47 AM
The didn't call regulators because there was no reason for them to provide regulatory relief.
My understanding is:
- Netflix delivers data to Verizon on a low cost ISP who peers with Verizon, but Verizon's ports can't process the quantity of traffic attempting to be delivered
- Verizon tells Netflix to deliver data using higher cost ISPs who pay Verizon to peer so Verizon has more infrastructure
To the public the companies spin it as:
Netflix represents to the public that Verizon should (per neutrality) upgrade their infrastructure at no cost to Netflix
Verizon represents to the public that Netflix choose paths too congested to deliver the data and Verizon infrastructure is not involved.
Meanwhile, the industry makes transparency difficult to impossible - an area where regulatory relief is being actively considered.
Leaving the customer stuck in the middle with a crappy picture and two false claims to contemplate.
Hubrisnxs, yes, that IS how the internet works. End users pay for access to it for the purpose of getting data they want. Content providers pay for access to it to serve traffic. Transit sits in the middle and the internet was built around settlement free peering amongst transit providers when it makes sense from a traffic exchange perspective. It has always been that way. DARPA and educational institutions didn't pay the destination party for the privilege of sending them data their users requested.
I pay Verizon for internet service, so do many others. I pay them to provide me with the transit bandwidth they claim my plan comes with. I do not pay them for 35 Mbit to some people, 2 Mbit to the ones they don't like. If their network is incapable of handling large amounts of traffic from certain sources, they need to deal with it, not pick and choose which third parties get penalized. If this precedent setting move starts to catch on, what you're going to see is every ISP start playing toll road with any content provider they feel like. Don't pay, degrade the service until it's unusable.
Additionally, I like how you completely ignore the fact that Netflix offers free peering and free local cache servers to large ISP's so that content does not have to cross their internet connections, or can do so for much lower expense. It's detailed on their website:
Or even better, a Netflix employee himself posting about this yesterday:
Verizon could easily obtain cache servers for their network that would greatly reduce the burden. They could easily peer with Netflix at any number of peering points within internet exchanges. I'm a network engineer myself, believe me, it would not cost them much. 10gig, and even 40 gig, interfaces are quite inexpensive for that size company at this point in time. They don't do any of that because they like the idea of double dipping; charge their customers for data transit, charge the content providers for data transit. They also don't have any trouble ruining the experience for less public and/or vocal groups. There are several online games that are popular, require a decent amount of bandwidth, but not more than what fits in the specs of the plans Verizon sells, and yet don't function correctly on a regular basis. Those users groups are too small for Verizon to care about releasing a press statement about, and they're happy to have those customers **bleep** because they probably have a monopoly on the last mile anyway.
I guess you're okay with your ISP deciding what packets of data are worth delivering to you.