G3100 issue/bug?

[Edrockvz]

tl;dr – I switched from a G1100 to a G3100. The G3100 seems to drop packets destined to/from the WAN randomly when it’s handling speeds in excess of 300+mbs whereas my G1100 did not.

Long version:

I upgraded from a G1100 with a Velop mesh system to a G3100 with 2 E3200 nodes using MoCA backhaul. I have FiOS gigabit service. For whatever reason my G3100 seems to drop packets destined for the internet, internal traffic appears fine. This is from both wired and wireless clients. The odd part is this only seems to occur when the total traffic between my LAN and WAN exceeds 300mbs, below this #, it doesn’t seem to drop packets, almost as if the G3100 cannot handle the traffic load properly.

I have tried changing out WAN ethernet cable (I have ethernet handoff from ONT), desktop ethernet cable to the router, rebooting router/ont/desktop, resetting router to defaults, switching mesh end points from MoCA to wireless then back, all of which did not resolve the problem. I also attempted to run a ping directly from the routers diagnostics page and it too reported drops.

Normally I wouldn’t care about a dropped packet here or there but I’m seeing about 5% packet loss, and it’s significant enough to kill my Zoom or session based connections. To clarify, this is when all LAN devices use more than 300+mbs combined in either direction, not just one device, but the issue still occurs if it is one device using 300+mbs as well.

I contacted Verizon and they told me my circuit seems fine, so it must be the router. This seems plausible because I did not experience this issue with the G1100. So I’ve ordered a replacement and will test that theory when it arrives later this week.

However, a friend of mine recently upgraded to the G3100 as well and I asked him to run a similar test. The only difference between our setups is he has a MoCA 2 handoff from his ONT whereas I have ethernet handoff. To my surprise, he sees the same behavior.

So now I’m curious if others with 500+mbs FiOS internet service and this router are seeing the same thing. To try and reproduce you can perform the following steps:

Open a command prompt, type “ping -t 8.8.8.8” without the quotes and press enter to start a continuous ping to Google’s DNS server. In a browser (can be on the same machine, but doesn’t have to be) go to www.speedtest.net and run several back to back speedtests while watching your continuous ping window. Do any of the replies timeout?

Other random issues I’ve come across with this router:

The FiOS smartphone app has an option to enable dynamic frequency selection (DFS), but I cannot find this option anywhere in the routers configuration.

Disabling wireless QMM appears to limit all my clients to 54mbs connection speeds.

By default, both wireless channels were set to legacy mode (not supporting wifi6 clients). Granted, I only have one WiFi6 client but seems odd to sell a WiFi6 mesh router and disable WiFi6 by default

Sometimes after a router reboot the admin page isn’t accessible from wireless clients, only wired. A reboot seems to resolve.

Sometimes when changing wireless channels on the router and applying, the router claims to have made the change but either the channel hasn’t changed or the wifi has remained shutdown on that node (tested with wifi scanner apps and the fact that no device connects to that node.) A reboot seems to resolve.

MoCA link light on E3200 mesh nodes randomly turns off, even though the status page shows them connected via MoCA

I don’t see anyway to see what speed MoCA endpoints are connected at or negotiated at. In fairness I couldn’t see this with my G1100 either.

I can’t seem to find any wired QoS settings

There doesn’t appear to be anyway to have the router handout a DNS address via DHCP other than the routers address (even though you can change the DNS addresses the router forwards to)

Prior to running a second coax cable for my second mesh node, I attempted to use an ethernet backhaul cable which I read should work on the forums. This would not work for me for some reason. Wireless pairing also refused to work. I attached via coax and let it pair, then wireless did work, but ethernet backhaul still did not work. So I ran coax.

There doesn’t appear to be a way to disable or relax DNS rebinding protections.

The router appears to have made auto port forwarding rules for port 4567, I’m guessing this is for vzw to perform firmware updates.

Traceroutes from internal clients no longer show the true route. It just shows one hope to the router and a second to the destination, almost as if the router is obfuscating the route.

[dslr595148]

A1: About the trace route issue, see TRACE ROUTE Odd Results FiOS Network 

Q1 While we get that you have FIOS Internet, do you also have FIOS TV?

Please note for this next question even if you have another one that is not use, you must say so. For example: Yes, but it is a spare.

Q2 Do you have a separate router?

Please note for this next question: One of the NICs must be a wired NIC and it should not be a portable type of computer (ex: a laptop).

Q3 Do you have spare computer that works that either has two NICs or you could add a second NIC?

[Edrockvz]

I do not have FiOS tv, but I do have a vz moca 2.5 adapter handing off Ethernet to the tv and Nvidia shield. 

Thanks for the traceroute tip. Sure enough, it works fine from my Linux box. 

I have an Asus router in the garage somewhere, but it's not in use. However today I got the replacement router, and it does the same thing. I may start with just the router and one device, then start adding devices and testing. My primary point of posting was to see if anyone else has seen similar results,I'm since both my friend and I saw the same behavior with the same equipment in separate households.   starting to wonder if it's something with one of the extenders or possibly one of the mesh nodes having issues. 

I have a spare desktop with 2 gig-e ports, only one port is in use presently. Is the idea to make my desktop a make-shift router?

[dslr595148]

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@Edrockvz wrote:

I do not have FiOS tv, but I do have a vz moca 2.5 adapter handing off Ethernet to the tv and Nvidia shield. 

Thanks for the traceroute tip. Sure enough, it works fine from my Linux box. 

I have an Asus router in the garage somewhere, but it's not in use. However today I got the replacement router, and it does the same thing. I may start with just the router and one device, then start adding devices and testing. My primary point of posting was to see if anyone else has seen similar results,I'm since both my friend and I saw the same behavior with the same equipment in separate households.   starting to wonder if it's something with one of the extenders or possibly one of the mesh nodes having issues. 

I have a spare desktop with 2 gig-e ports, only one port is in use presently. Is the idea to make my desktop a make-shift router?

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#1 If possible get connection from the ONT ethernet.

#2 If that is not possible, then put the G3100 router into bridge mode.

REF Just got a G3100 and a new setup. How do I bridge it? 

#3 Then use your own RJ-45 WAN port NAT router but not a FIOS router.

#4 For own router it can either a hardware one (like your Asus router) or DIY.

For the DIY router it can either be a true DIY router or a Linux/an Unix/a BSD distro designed for connection sharing.

By true DIY router, these next two REFs.

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/01/numbers-dont-lie-its-time-to-build-your-own-router/

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/04/the-ars-guide-to-building-a-linux-router-from-scratch/

For that project it is can be one of these: Brand new, built/assembled brand new or spare.

By using a Linux/an Unix/a BSD distro designed for connection sharing, I mean this

REF

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/09/the-router-rumble-ars-diy-build-faces-better-tests-tougher-c...

There are distros that do not require an install (Live CD, Live DVD, Live USB Jump/Thumb Drive) to use them and that does include a few designed for connection sharing. This is true even if you want a true DIY NAT router.

But aware of what is meant by Live CD, Live DVD, Live USB Jump/Thumb Drive.

REF = https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live_CD

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A live CD (also live DVD, live disc, or live operating system) is a complete bootable computer installation including operating system which runs directly from a CD-ROM or similar storage device into a computer's memory, rather than loading from a hard disk drive. A Live CD allows users to run an operating system for any purpose without installing it or making any changes to the computer's configuration. Live CDs can run on a computer without secondary storage, such as a hard disk drive, or with a corrupted hard disk drive or file system, allowing data recovery.

As CD and DVD drives have been steadily phased-out, live CDs have become less popular, being replaced by live USBs, which are equivalent systems written onto USB flash drives, which have the added benefit of having write-able storage. The functionality of a live CD is also available with a bootable live USB flash drive, or an external hard disk drive connected by USB. Many live CDs offer the option of persistence by writing files to a hard drive or USB flash drive.

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If using a Live one (not installed to HD spinning or otherwise), look into one that offers persistence and this does not matter if you use one designed for connection sharing or true DIY.

[Edrockvz]

Thanks. I appreciate the time and effort you put in to try and help. Unfortunately I had the g1100 and a velop mesh system in bridge mode before. The reason I bought this g3100 system is to simplify and flatten my network even further. Seeing the other threads on the g3100 it appears I'm not the only one having these issues, so there's no guarantee that putting the g3100 in bridge mode won't yield packet drops for my wireless devices. Has Verizon acknowledged any of these issues?

I don't mean to sound unappreciative, the setup you mentioned is a solid mitigation, unfortunately just not what I'm looking for at the moment. I'm still within my return window so trying to figure out if I should just return this $700 in wifi6 gear and wait for a commercial branded wifi6e with 6ghz band support. 

[Mae27]

Nothing but trouble with the new G3100.  First one was not right so I got a second shipped.  Not right either.  So frustrated.   My issue is different than yours but fundamentally this router is a PITN.

I'm struck by how much knowledge you both have and yet still struggling.  How is a regular consumer like me supposed to figure it out?  I chat with and speak to verizon tech support (and upgraded to premium tech support) frequently and for too much time.

Seems every other day I'm troubleshooting something.  Maybe its WFH.

[Edrockvz]

It is 100% the router. I hooked up my old G1100 and daisy changed the G3100 to it (disabled DHCP and changed IP on G3100.) Network came up, G3100 and 2 E3200 mesh nodes came up. Everything works as it should now, no packet loss, no session disconnects. Only side effect is G3100 status light stays "yellow" since nothing is attached to WAN port and it thinks it has no internet, but it's working as it should. Verizon needs to fix this, for a $300+ router (and $200+ mesh nodes) this router should be able to handle basic internet traffic without dropping packets/sessions.

[sixofnine]

Also, we shouldn't need to be network engineers to test and remediate these issues. For every knowledgeable user like Edrockvz, think of the number of customers out there who just want their internet connection to work reliably -- in other words, to get what they paid for.

[appDev]

Just to add my experience - i've really had no issues (knock on wood) so far. I went from a G1100 + Luma Mesh network to a G3100. Didn't use the wi-fi on there.

Have a new Tp-Link Deco X60 in the box that i'm hoping to replace the G3100 with, and use the old G1100 as a moca bridge for Fios TV One. Just haven't been able to get a long enough break from work to do so.

Hoping to try backhaul with the APs, but since the G1100 is only Moca 2.0, i am returning the 2.5s that i ordered and waiting for the 2.0s.

But that being said, i might be one of the lucky ones with the 3100 acting the way it SHOULD. Of course, i haven't really done anything other than activating and changing password, but now i am scared to touch anything. Haven't even setup the pihole on the new one yet.

Having perused this board, however, it does seem more likely to have issues than not.

Couple points -

1. QMM doesn't limit my Wifi speeds
2. No dropped packets yet - let ping run for over 12 minutes, and the ping time occasionally increases from 4-4 ms to as high as 42ms, but never failed. All while  running speed test.

Any other tests i can try and validate, happy to.

[Edrockvz]

That's good to know, thanks! Does yours use Ethernet or coax to router? Mine uses ethernet to router and coax to mesh nodes. As I mentioned in my previous post, putting g1100 inline as wan connection eliminated all my issues. The g3100 seems to have stricter loop back policies and DNS spoofing polices, and I have an somewhat advanced internal network with virtual machines, virtual nics, custom DNS, etc. So it's entirely possible that the g3100 is thinking something on my internal network is a security risk and temporarily blocking/killing traffic. However in all my tests I cannot pinpoint what it doesnt like. In my Wireshark packet capture the only clue is when it starts to drop packets, the packets are coming to my endpoint from the router out of order for the few seconds of dropped packets. This leads me to believe it's something about the added security features of the g3100 that's causing the issues, especially since disconnecting it from the wan, but still using it for LAN/wifi has yielded no dropped packets or issues.

I noticed the g1100 doesnt seem to care about loopback or DNS spoofing too.