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Quantum Gateway Router Question

Quantum Gateway Router Question

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Copper Contributor GuardianHope
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Posts: 23
Registered: ‎03-25-2015
Message 1 of 20
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We've had some pretty bad routers in the past: the old Verizon DSL Westell 327w's that were replaced every other week, the Actiontec Gen II. Rev. D. BHR, the Netgear R7000 Nighthawks which burned out in less than four months, and now the FiOS Quantum Gateway which replaced an Actiontec Gen III. Rev. I BHR that couldn't maintain a WAN connection.

 

Of course, that issue pales in comparrison to the fact that the FiOS Quantum Gateway can't seem to maintain a WAN or LAN connection. Even though we have a tech coming Monday for the 150M/150M upgrade, I doubt it's going to make much of a difference since clearly there is a problem with the Quantum Gateway itself.

 

We have had the router since Monday and in that time it has literally reset itself each and every single day. Right now, the Quantum Gateway reports an uptime of just slightly over 6 hours and 30 minutes yet it's been powered on since Monday. This of course is a frequent reoccruance; powered on since Monday but it can't seem to stay active throughout one entire day.

 

To further that, the FiOS Quantum Gateway seems to be having repeated errors with its DNS Server, providing errors <error137>, <error139>, <error153>, and <error155> in the log enough time that it is usually all the logging reports yet the only DNS changes made was to elect Verizon's non-hijacking DNS servers (for those of you who have been with Verizon for a long time wil know that those are the ones that end in '.14' while the DNS hijacking ones are '.12' and if you're new; congratsulations - you learned something today and welcome to Verizon). Of course, it's clearly not the DNS servers themselves because on of the first things we tried was switching it back to letting it acquire them automatically. Same results.

 

It is also clear that these issues are now affecting the entire network as ASUS RT-AC87R's which act as AC Access Points (i.e. they still rely on the Verizon router to get DNS) are constantly reporting the following:

 

 

Mar 11 18:58:14 kernel: br0: port 1(vlan1) received tcn bpdu
Mar 11 18:58:14 kernel: br0: topology change detected, propagating
Mar 11 18:58:35 kernel: br0: port 1(vlan1) received tcn bpdu
Mar 11 18:58:35 kernel: br0: topology change detected, propagating
Mar 11 19:00:35 disk_monitor: Got SIGALRM...
Mar 11 23:00:35 disk_monitor: Got SIGALRM...

At intervals concurrent with the FiOS Quantum Gateway presenting errors. However, since that's apparently not enough for this **bleep** of a gateway (I can't believe people paid or rent these devices!): WAN and LAN drop off whether you are connected to directly to the Gateway, on MoCA LAN, or via an Access Point so the only single common denominator is the FiOS Quantum Gateway.

 

 

The absolute best parts: there's no apparent way to bypass the Quantum Gateway and let an ASUS router control the DNS and QoS is locked out of the Quantum Gateways leaving the STBs which were in Queue 5 on the Rev. I (an acceptable queue) maxed out at Queue 7 (the highest) which should be reserved for devices that need that queue such as transmissions from the Access Points.

 

So while I have a tech dispatch on Monday to wire everything up for Quanntum 150M/150M who isn't hopefully incompetent (yes, I have encountered tech visits where the tech was so incompetent that they said my Actiontec router wasn't a Verizon router because the SSID was not default even though it had the Verizon branding and when he wouldn't listen I kicked him out of the house and called his manager and Verizon Executive Relations).

 

Is there anyway to bypass the Quantum Gateway. I tried a DMZ method I saw posted here whereby two subnets are created and a route is added to route the Quantum Gateway traffic to the router of your choice but it always errors out at setting up a Static NAT and the Quantum Gateway won't even accept the route to the appropriate subnet.

 

I have a laundry list of complaints for that tech on Monday whose here to install the 150/150 internet but honestly I will cancel Verizon if I can't get a working internet after it's been three weeks! There ETF fee is less than my bill from Verizon Wireless so it's not really a big deal to throw away Verizon's rather lackluster FiOS service which is what it's been for a month. This after eleven (11) years of being a Verizon customer.

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MVP CRobGauth MVP
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Registered: ‎11-04-2008
Message 2 of 20
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You don't mention it.

If you don't have FIOS TV service, you can use whatever router you want.

If you do (especially Quantum), you will need the Gateway.

Unless there is an issue with your connection to the ONT (are you coax or ethernet? Should be Ehternet at 150M), you could have a bad rotuer.

I have had a Quantum router for almost a year.

It has been rock solid.


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Copper Contributor GuardianHope
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Posts: 23
Registered: ‎03-25-2015
Message 3 of 20
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@CRobGauth wrote:

You don't mention it.

If you don't have FIOS TV service, you can use whatever router you want.

If you do (especially Quantum), you will need the Gateway.

Unless there is an issue with your connection to the ONT (are you coax or ethernet? Should be Ehternet at 150M), you could have a bad rotuer.

I have had a Quantum router for almost a year.

It has been rock solid.


 

Sorry for not mentioning it; it's been a long three weeks (thank God for VZW's high bandwidht plans) but yes, we do have FiOS TV (and FiOS Digital Voice if that matters) too. FiOS TV was switched over to Quantum about a year ago I want to say (shortly after the VMS1100's came out we got it). In fact, we can't even re-enable Caller ID on the STBs since getting the Quantum Gateway ("CIDR_0004" error in the troubleshooter with a contact number for Verizon)

 

I do know that the tech being dispatched is being done so not only because we upgraded to 150M/150M but it should also be a repair order (their replacing the ONT) and running Ethernet for the 150M upgrade. Right now it's sitting at 100M Quantum service (and the reason why they sent the Quantum Gateway to begin with) on Coax at MoCA 2.0.

 

It looks like their intending to replace the Quantum Gateway too as the order shows that they are taking the current one (the serial numbers match on items to be returned) and the order shows a new Quantum Gateway.

 

However, this would be the second bad router I got from Verizon in a row. They sent a replacement Rev. I to hold us over until the Quantum Gateway got here and that one had the same exact issues which is a little pecuilar now that I am thinking about it (dropping WAN and LAN - not DNS) but that one was definitely defective (power light was always blinking red even though it was "operating").

Copper Contributor GuardianHope
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Posts: 23
Registered: ‎03-25-2015
Message 4 of 20
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Well, after about two weeks of using this router I can throughly say it's a piece of junk and not worth a dime which makes me rather happy that I never paid for it nor do I have to pay any absurd rental fees on it.

 

Let me tally up the things it has done so far:

 

  • Reboots Randomly
  • Disconnects from the Internet
  • Blocks Legitiment Traffic with the "Typical" Firwall Settings
  • Local DHCP Server Problems
  • Reboots Randomly (Wait, did I mention that one? Oh yes, I mentioned it again because it's **bleep** annoying!)

 

Like seriously, if I could get a BHR 3 back I would. This thing is a total piece of junk. If I could put my ASUS router in front of it, I would. If I could use anything other than this BHR 4 piece of trash, I would.

 

Do you know how many problems I had with a BHR 3? Zero. Except that it burnt out after about a year. Can I go back to a BHR 3? No. Because I have the 150/150 package on a MoCA 2.0 link (available very limitedly in the Verizon footprint as they can't drill through super thick concrete wall) and the BHR4 is the only MoCA 2.0 compliant router Verizon offers.

Contributor muahvv
Contributor
Posts: 1
Registered: ‎03-31-2016
Message 5 of 20
(44,439 Views)

 

so true!so agree!!!


@GuardianHope wrote:

We've had some pretty bad routers in the past: the old Verizon DSL Westell 327w's that were replaced every other week, the Actiontec Gen II. Rev. D. BHR, the Netgear R7000 Nighthawks which burned out in less than four months, and now the FiOS Quantum Gateway which replaced an Actiontec Gen III. Rev. I BHR that couldn't maintain a WAN connection.

 

Of course, that issue pales in comparrison to the fact that the FiOS Quantum Gateway can't seem to maintain a WAN or LAN connection. Even though we have a tech coming Monday for the 150M/150M upgrade, I doubt it's going to make much of a difference since clearly there is a problem with the Quantum Gateway itself.

 

We have had the router since Monday and in that time it has literally reset itself each and every single day. Right now, the Quantum Gateway reports an uptime of just slightly over 6 hours and 30 minutes yet it's been powered on since Monday. This of course is a frequent reoccruance; powered on since Monday but it can't seem to stay active throughout one entire day.

 

To further that, the FiOS Quantum Gateway seems to be having repeated errors with its DNS Server, providing errors <error137>, <error139>, <error153>, and <error155> in the log enough time that it is usually all the logging reports yet the only DNS changes made was to elect Verizon's non-hijacking DNS servers (for those of you who have been with Verizon for a long time wil know that those are the ones that end in '.14' while the DNS hijacking ones are '.12' and if you're new; congratsulations - you learned something today and welcome to Verizon). Of course, it's clearly not the DNS servers themselves because on of the first things we tried was switching it back to letting it acquire them automatically. Same results.

 

It is also clear that these issues are now affecting the entire network as ASUS RT-AC87R's which act as AC Access Points (i.e. they still rely on the Verizon router to get DNS) are constantly reporting the following:

 

 

Mar 11 18:58:14 kernel: br0: port 1(vlan1) received tcn bpdu
Mar 11 18:58:14 kernel: br0: topology change detected, propagating
Mar 11 18:58:35 kernel: br0: port 1(vlan1) received tcn bpdu
Mar 11 18:58:35 kernel: br0: topology change detected, propagating
Mar 11 19:00:35 disk_monitor: Got SIGALRM...
Mar 11 23:00:35 disk_monitor: Got SIGALRM...

At intervals concurrent with the FiOS Quantum Gateway presenting errors. However, since that's apparently not enough for this **bleep** of a gateway (I can't believe people paid or rent these devices!): WAN and LAN drop off whether you are connected to directly to the Gateway, on MoCA LAN, or via an Access Point so the only single common denominator is the FiOS Quantum Gateway.

 

 

The absolute best parts: there's no apparent way to bypass the Quantum Gateway and let an ASUS router control the DNS and QoS is locked out of the Quantum Gateways leaving the STBs which were in Queue 5 on the Rev. I (an acceptable queue) maxed out at Queue 7 (the highest) which should be reserved for devices that need that queue such as transmissions from the Access Points.

 

So while I have a tech dispatch on Monday to wire everything up for Quanntum 150M/150M who isn't hopefully incompetent (yes, I have encountered tech visits where the tech was so incompetent that they said my Actiontec router wasn't a Verizon router because the SSID was not default even though it had the Verizon branding and when he wouldn't listen I kicked him out of the house and called his manager and Verizon Executive Relations).

 

Is there anyway to bypass the Quantum Gateway. I tried a DMZ method I saw posted here whereby two subnets are created and a route is added to route the Quantum Gateway traffic to the router of your choice but it always errors out at setting up a Static NAT and the Quantum Gateway won't even accept the route to the appropriate subnet.

 

I have a laundry list of complaints for that tech on Monday whose here to install the 150/150 internet but honestly I will cancel Verizon if I can't get a working internet after it's been three weeks! There ETF fee is less than my bill from Verizon Wireless so it's not really a big deal to throw away Verizon's rather lackluster FiOS service which is what it's been for a month. This after eleven (11) years of being a Verizon customer.


 

MVP CRobGauth MVP
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Posts: 7,713
Registered: ‎11-04-2008
Message 6 of 20
(44,421 Views)

Not sure why some people have issues, but I have never experenced the issues you are seeing.

No way for you to run an ethernet cable from ONT to location of your router?


If a forum member gives an answer you like, give them the Kudos they deserve. If a member gives you the answer to your question, mark the answer as Accepted Solution so others can see the solution to the problem.
Copper Contributor GuardianHope
Copper Contributor
Posts: 23
Registered: ‎03-25-2015
Message 7 of 20
(44,398 Views)

@CRobGauth wrote:

Not sure why some people have issues, but I have never experenced the issues you are seeing.

No way for you to run an ethernet cable from ONT to location of your router?


 

Verizon's sending a new router "supposedly" as I haven't seen a confirmation email whatsoever. Billing liked to call this "advanced and sophisticated service" but I own multiple 10GbE continental networks across two continents and FiOS Quantum is most definitely not sophisticated or stte of the art. I'm leaning towards canceling and/or contacting Verizon Executive Relations. The billing person I spoke to also lovlingly said that "we have to pay to get a network extender" even though we sent them the email that Verizon confirmed a Second FiOS Quantum Gateway was supposed to be sent for the Home Theatere. 

 

Verizon's become a joke after eleven years with them. Perhaps it's time for me to move on because nobody can do worse than "no working internet." I am tired of tech dispatches for something as simple as send me working devices and send me the proper amount. I'm no longer wasting my days with technical support people who have no intelligence. I will be shocked to even see the Quantum Gateway even show up to replace the current one and they still haven't replaced the second BHR 3 I had with a proper equivlaent for "Quantum" which according to them is a "Network Extender." I am not paying $74.99 for something I already had.

 

Anyways, to answer your question: no, it's impossible. The exterior walling is too thick and the last time they drilled into the house Verizon costed over $1,000 worth of damage they had to pay for.

Platinum Contributor III Platinum Contributor III
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Registered: ‎12-15-2010
Message 8 of 20
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Are your RT-AC87R routers connected back to the Quantum Gateway using Ethernet port 1 on the ASUS? That port lives on the Quantenna SoC, not the Broadcom SoC. It looks like the router is updating topology as a part of the Spanning Tree protocol used by all routers, and I suspect the Quantenna SoC could be partially to blame. There have been some bugs with it in the past, and the Quantenna uses RGMII (basically low-profile Gigabit Ethernet) between the Broadcom and itself. Ports 2-4 on the router will go to the Broadcom SoC.

 

As for the DNS part... why use Verizon's DNS? Go use something more robust like Google DNS or OpenDNS.

 

When the tech arrives to install 150M Internet, work with them to set up one of your ASUS Routers, or another capable router as primary. If the tech insists getting the Quantum hooked up first, let them do that. Then, once they leave, follow the DSLReports guide on using the Quantum router as a secondary.

 

https://www.dslreports.com/faq/verizonfios/3.0_Networking

 

The above applies to the ActionTec router, but the concepts are the same. Your key step here is getting Ethernet from the ONT.

Copper Contributor GuardianHope
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Posts: 23
Registered: ‎03-25-2015
Message 9 of 20
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@Smith6612 wrote:

Are your RT-AC87R routers connected back to the Quantum Gateway using Ethernet port 1 on the ASUS? That port lives on the Quantenna SoC, not the Broadcom SoC. It looks like the router is updating topology as a part of the Spanning Tree protocol used by all routers, and I suspect the Quantenna SoC could be partially to blame. There have been some bugs with it in the past, and the Quantenna uses RGMII (basically low-profile Gigabit Ethernet) between the Broadcom and itself. Ports 2-4 on the router will go to the Broadcom SoC.

 

As for the DNS part... why use Verizon's DNS? Go use something more robust like Google DNS or OpenDNS.

 

When the tech arrives to install 150M Internet, work with them to set up one of your ASUS Routers, or another capable router as primary. If the tech insists getting the Quantum hooked up first, let them do that. Then, once they leave, follow the DSLReports guide on using the Quantum router as a secondary.

 

https://www.dslreports.com/faq/verizonfios/3.0_Networking

 

The above applies to the ActionTec router, but the concepts are the same. Your key step here is getting Ethernet from the ONT.


Those notifications were from when the router was in "AP Mode" which means it was connected to the Quantum Gateway on the WAN Port and not any of the LAN Ports. When I switched it to router mode after experiencing so many issues with the Quantum Gateway and just simply DMZ'd the router and created another subnet with routes to and from it was on WAN and LAN Port 2. Those messages were supressed but local DHCP was still raising all sorts of issues similar to the Quantum Gateway. I will explain why in a little bit.

 

To your question about DNS Servers, both Google DNS and OpenDNS have always responded slower noticably, for as long as I can remember. This actually logically makes sense since the Verizon DNS is "within the network." When people suggest actions like that I will never understand because any DNS server that is "closer" will respond to and query much faster than a DNS outside of one's network. Now there are cases of horrible ISPs with bad DNS servers but anyone knowledgeable in DNS would know this.

 

Also, to further that, I have ran tests utilizing both "alternative DNS services" and the query times are significantly higher (253ms avg. response vs 43ms avg. response of Verizon's DNS). In fact, the only DNS system faster which is available were NTT from NTT Communications (23ms. avg response) and from one of my own DNS networks (18ms. avg response). Neither of those choices are however fesible to use.

 

Next, the FiOS Tech has already come and gone. They didn't drill nor did they install ethernet. I am one of the few people within the Verizon FiOS footprint that is capable of sustaining Quantum 150/150 on MoCA 2.0 (more like 200/200). I've been with Verizon for a very long time (11 years) and I know all those ways of getting around from DSLR and have used them before with the old Actiontec's. In case you are wondering why they didn't drill: Verizon caused over $1,000 worth of damage the last time they drilled for FiOS and had to pay for it. It's just not fesible to run Ethernet from the outside and since the where the Fiber lines are run from are literally not that far into my backyard the ONT is on the back right side of the home where copper used to come in (the old telephone box is still there).

 

Now to why the Quantum Gateway Is Acting Up: After days and days of hopefully getting the log just in time before a Quantum Gateway reboot I did and narrowed it down to one direct cause: the renewal of a 24 hour local DHCP lease to an HP Pavilion H8-1160t's network devices (both WiFi and Ethernet; doesn't matter which one is enabled or which one is disabled) running Windows 10 Pro. Every single time it tries to renew the lease the DHCP server errors, crashes, and the router reboots. I have confirmed this by setting the lease time to the lowest possible and watching to see what happens.

 

The Fix for the Quantum Gateway: Set a static IP address on the system which is causing the problem. You will need to power off the Quantum Gateway and do this for any incompatible devices! I have an iPad 3 and it would cause the Quantum Gateway to crash too until I set it to Static. Ever since, the Quantum Gateway has been functioning normally though I am getting a replacement.

 

This is not the first time a Verizon router has been incompatible with devices: A long time ago I had a Westell 327w and a Dell 1150 Wireless Card. Dell replaced the cards over and and over before replacing the computer which "fixed it." Turns out, in 2008 it was disclosed that the Westell 327w was incompatible with that Dell Wireless card. I got around this with a trusty WRT54G that I then used for FiOS until they burned out. WRT54G's are arguably the best routers Linksys ever produced as a sidenote for those of you that don't remember. 

 

Can Verizon Fix This?@ DHCP Server is just software. Unless the problem lies with hardware within the Quantum Gateway Verizon could fix this by releasing firmware with a different DHCP Server or an updated DHCP Server. A computer that has a Core i7-2600 is by no means "outdated" when my mid-2010 Macbook Pro can work just fine. My servers and my own server/computer that has a Core i7-3770K @ 5.0GHz and an ASUS PCIe-AC68 WiFi Card as well as Federal Government issued computers, iPhone 6s Plus', and even a Galaxy 6 all work fine (as does an iPad Mini 2).

 

This is however why some don't experience problems and others do. It's dependant on the hardware you have for your devices.

 

In the interim, I've been in touch with VZ Tech Support who are shipping a new Quantum Gateway and a Network Extender due to the fact we used to have two Rev. I's that were documented. So I solved my situation and I hope others can use this to help resolve their Quantum Gateway issues!

Platinum Contributor III Platinum Contributor III
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Registered: ‎12-15-2010
Message 10 of 20
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Good finds none the less, especially on the DHCP part. I suspect the G1100 is using dnsmasq, but I'd need to get my hands on one to confirm. I'd be curious if certain DHCP options requested by certain devices cause the router to misbehave. Worth looking into if you're familiar with Wireshark and MITMing.

 

In my personal experience, I've always had problems with the Verizon DNS servers being less than ideal at least in my region. I'd regularly get slow query responses, especially at night. Using external DNS would always solve this, even with EDNS queries. I've avoided a few "Internet outages" thanks to this. OpenDNS sits around 16ms away, whereas Verizon's own DNS Servers for my region sit 22ms and 35ms away for primary and secondary. Even if Verizon's were faster, due to less load on them or lower latency, at night OpenDNS's consistent query performance makes up for the fact..

 

I have a number of WRT54G routers which are still in service today, although at home I use the RT-AC87U (Previously used an MI424WR Rev. D with DD-WRT, rock solid until I maxed the RAM out). Fabulous devices, although they're starting to show their age with faster connections. Never had a problem with a single one of them, unless it was related to a power supply. Wireless was top notch.

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