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Routing / Latency issues

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Copper Contributor
Copper Contributor
Posts: 11
Registered: ‎01-14-2013

Routing / Latency issues

Message 1 of 77
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Is there anyone I can speak to about routing/latency issues? I recently switched to fios and since have had nothing but terrible lag issues when gaming. The issues occur just a hop or 2 off the verizon network. I can provide traceroutes, but primarily I am looking to speak with someone other than the tier1 folks answering the phones.

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Platinum Contributor III Platinum Contributor III
Platinum Contributor III
Posts: 6,023
Registered: ‎09-24-2008

Re: Routing / Latency issues

Message 77 of 77
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@chzoom wrote:

You know what the best part about this issue is? We are months into this thread, nearly 80 posts in with reports for several different games, from several different regions of the country and yet not a single person with half a brain from Verizon has replied.

 

Verizon you should be ashamed, your customer service is extremely poor and your higher tiered techs are just as bad. If I provided this level of customer service to my customers I would be fired.

 

WAKE UP and help your customers that keep your business floating. I am almost out of my contract and as soon as I am done I will be taking my business back to Cox, at least I never had these issues in the 10 years I had their service.

 

/rant


I think perhaps you are a bit confused. This is a peer-to-peer support forum. Posters are fellow end-users like you unless noted as a Verizon Employee via rank and/or avatar.

If you are the original poster (OP) and your issue is solved, please remember to click the "Solution?" button so that others can more easily find it. If anyone has been helpful to you, please show your appreciation by clicking the "Kudos" button.


 

View solution in original post

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Bronze Contributor II
Bronze Contributor II
Posts: 384
Registered: ‎10-15-2012

Re: Routing / Latency issues

Message 2 of 77
(7,232 Views)

Just a friendly reminder, this is a forum where users help other users.

 

If you'd like to get the ball rolling with help on your issue, this is a good place to start:

http://www.verizon.com/contactus

Choose “Live Chat.”

If a chat agent is available to assist you, the chat link will become live after the page is fully loaded.

 

Take care!

 

AnnieS

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Platinum Contributor III Platinum Contributor III
Platinum Contributor III
Posts: 7,547
Registered: ‎12-15-2010

Re: Routing / Latency issues

Message 3 of 77
(7,200 Views)

If you could supply one of the traceroutes you're seeing issues with to us that would be appreciated.

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Platinum Contributor III
Platinum Contributor III
Posts: 5,881
Registered: ‎07-22-2009

Re: Routing / Latency issues

Message 4 of 77
(7,182 Views)

Verizon really doesn't have Tier II or Tier III tech's that talk to customers.

 

Those tech's get their reports from tier I only, and then they investigate their issue.

 

Those tech's are designed to talk with other Tech's and other departments.  So their network tech's do talk to customers occasionally, but that is after a report has been sent to them, and they are done looking at it, and they need more info.  They may call you personally to get that info.  other wise they are fielding calls from Field technicians in the street that are on trouble reports or installs, or they are working with Internal Departments to resolve different issues. 

 

So you have to go through tier I.

 

 

The only kindasorta way you can get around that is by doing the twitter support.  They are pretty exceptional, but otherwise you can post here, and there are a lot of very experienced users of varying backgrounds that can help you, so feel free to post your traceroutes here.  XXX out your actual IP address for safety, and let us know if you are hardwired or wirless when doing your tracert and what bandwidth or kind of traffic you are pushing when you do your tests.

 

 

Keep in mind gaming/movie or media streaming and bittorrent traffic when replying. 

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Copper Contributor
Copper Contributor
Posts: 11
Registered: ‎01-14-2013

Re: Routing / Latency issues

Message 5 of 77
(7,163 Views)

thanks for the information everyone. I know how these things can go (I myself used to work for a broadband ISP). This type of issue is difficult to get any help with being the issue isn't really with verizons network. However, where verizon routes this traffic to can possibly be controlled. All of my issues appear be to on alter.net which is where verizon routes this specific traffic.

 

- Used to ping around 20-30ms

- Now my ping times are around 110-150ms

- The latency goes from 20ms to 110-150 within 1 hop of verizons network

- Connection is ethernet based (not wireless)

 

I have included 2 different traceroutes. One is to a server located in VA and the other in DC. It is clear the hop that my latency starts to occur is on alter.net's network. To add to this, I did also change the MAC of my verizon router to get a new DHCP lease in hopes that the routing might change, but it took the same path off verizons network.

 

******** VA *********

tracert 64.34.186.94

Tracing route to . [64.34.186.94]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms Wireless_Broadband_Router.home
2 6 ms 6 ms 6 ms lo0-100.PRVDRI-VFTTP-303.verizon-gni.net
3 24 ms 7 ms 6 ms G0-3-4-6.PRVDRI-LCR-22.verizon-gni.net [130.81.191.242]
4 62 ms 15 ms 7 ms ae2-0.BOS-BB-RTR2.verizon-gni.net [130.81.209.60]
5 39 ms 14 ms 14 ms ge-7-1-0-0.NY5030-BB-RTR2.verizon-gni.net [130.81.19.33]
6 18 ms 18 ms 17 ms 0.so-0-0-0.XT2.NYC4.ALTER.NET [152.63.17.21]
7 17 ms 22 ms 20 ms TenGigE0-6-2-0.GW8.NYC4.ALTER.NET [152.63.21.117]
8 115 ms 118 ms 119 ms tinet-gw.customer.alter.net [152.179.72.122]
9 125 ms 127 ms 132 ms xe-0-0-0.was14.ip4.tinet.net [141.136.111.14]
10 130 ms 134 ms 134 ms peer1-gw.ip4.tinet.net [173.241.128.102]
11 136 ms 137 ms 134 ms 10ge-xe-1-0-1.wdc-sp225-sbdis-1.peer1.net [216.187.120.114]
12 135 ms 134 ms 132 ms . [64.34.186.94]

Trace complete.

 

******** DC **********

tracert 50.97.59.34

Tracing route to 50.97.59.34-static.reverse.softlayer.com [50.97.59.34]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms Wireless_Broadband_Router.home
2 6 ms 5 ms 5 ms lo0-100.PRVDRI-VFTTP-303.verizon-gni.net
3 6 ms 8 ms 6 ms G0-3-4-6.PRVDRI-LCR-21.verizon-gni.net [130.81.191.240]
4 11 ms 12 ms 11 ms ae4-0.NY5030-BB-RTR1.verizon-gni.net [130.81.209.54]
5 13 ms 12 ms 14 ms 0.xe-10-1-0.BR1.NYC1.ALTER.NET [152.63.18.225]
6 13 ms 12 ms 12 ms ae11.edge2.NewYork.Level3.net [4.68.62.41]
7 12 ms 13 ms 13 ms vlan51.ebr1.NewYork2.Level3.net [4.69.138.222]
8 12 ms 13 ms 13 ms ae-4-4.ebr1.NewYork1.Level3.net [4.69.141.17]
9 13 ms 21 ms 24 ms ae-91-91.csw4.NewYork1.Level3.net [4.69.134.78]
10 20 ms 13 ms 13 ms ae-4-90.edge3.NewYork1.Level3.net [4.69.155.209]
11 15 ms 15 ms 15 ms te2-5.bbr01.tl01.nyc01.networklayer.com [4.26.34.22]
12 13 ms 12 ms 13 ms ae7.bbr01.tl01.nyc01.networklayer.com [173.192.18.176]
13 25 ms 20 ms 21 ms ae1.bbr01.eq01.wdc02.networklayer.com [173.192.18.156]
14 24 ms 25 ms 23 ms ae0.dar02.sr01.wdc01.networklayer.com [173.192.18.203]
15 24 ms 26 ms 24 ms po2.fcr03.sr02.wdc01.networklayer.com [208.43.118.159]
16 27 ms 22 ms 21 ms 50.97.59.34-static.reverse.softlayer.com [50.97.59.34]

 

I have tried to call in and get assistance but the tech couldn't even provide me an email address to send my traceroutes to. If there is absolutely no way to resolve this issue because it is off verizon's network what course of action can I take? The reason I have the services is for gaming and the connection to my specified servers are unstable making it quite difficult to play.

 

I would like to note, though I am having these issues - my download speeds, streaming, etc are all perfect and I couldn't be happier with that.

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Platinum Contributor III
Platinum Contributor III
Posts: 5,881
Registered: ‎07-22-2009

Re: Routing / Latency issues

Message 6 of 77
(7,146 Views)

Alter.net is MCI's old backbone network, and Verizon Bought them a year or two ago, so they may be able to help still.

 

Try the twitter guys, that might be more helpful, or you can do a smart who is look up on the routers that you are having trouble with, and email their NOC or technical contact. 

 

Additionally you should look at these QOS settings - that might help you as well. 

 

Optimal Actiontec MI424WR router set up for Xbox Black Ops 2

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Copper Contributor
Copper Contributor
Posts: 11
Registered: ‎01-14-2013

Re: Routing / Latency issues

Message 7 of 77
(7,136 Views)

I have tried playing with QoS but it doesn't make much of a difference. I also know for a fact that is effecting more than just fios customers in my area. There is a few forum posts around this on certain gaming sites I am on, all reporting similar latency issues for about 2 weeks now to the same servers.

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Copper Contributor
Copper Contributor
Posts: 11
Registered: ‎01-14-2013

Re: Routing / Latency issues

Message 8 of 77
(7,069 Views)

Took a few calls into Verizon to actually get someone that understood what was going on. Most of the tier 1 techs didn't know what traceroute or latency was and were not very helpful in allowing me to provide the information. I had to get a supervisor who was super helpful and assisted by remoting to my machine, running the same traceroutes that I provided here and forwarded them to Tier2 (at least I hope so). I'll respond here once I have more information.

 

I did want to add that this issue is even happening from some servers I have out of TX and even free ones I have tested from

 

Trace to tinet.net not going through tinet-gw.customer.alter.net - sourcing off verizon network

 

Hop(ms)(ms)(ms)      IP AddressHost name
  1   0   0      8.9.232.73 xe-5-3-0.edge3.dallas1.level3.net  
  0   0   0      4.69.145.205 ae-4-90.edge4.dallas3.level3.net  
  3   3   3      77.67.71.221 xe-8-1-2.dal33.ip4.tinet.net  
  39   39   39      89.149.183.70 xe-1-2-0.nyc41.ip4.tinet.net  
  42   39   39      141.136.111.14 xe-0-0-0.was14.ip4.tinet.net  

 

Trace to tinet.net going through tinet-gw.customer.alter.net - sourced from my machine on the fios network

 

  2     6 ms     6 ms     6 ms  lo0-100.PRVDRIxxxxxxx
  3     6 ms     6 ms     6 ms  G0-3-4-6.PRVDRI-LCR-22.verizon-gni.net [130.81.191.242]
  4     8 ms    42 ms    38 ms  ae2-0.BOS-BB-RTR2.verizon-gni.net [130.81.209.60]
  5    65 ms   128 ms    29 ms  ge-1-2-0-0.NY325-BB-RTR2.verizon-gni.net [130.81.17.24]
  6    17 ms    17 ms    17 ms  0.so-4-0-2.XT2.NYC4.ALTER.NET [152.63.1.57]
  7    19 ms    19 ms    17 ms  TenGigE0-7-2-0.GW8.NYC4.ALTER.NET [152.63.21.129]
  8   111 ms   107 ms   109 ms  tinet-gw.customer.alter.net [152.179.72.122]
  9   117 ms   129 ms   108 ms  xe-4-1-0.nyc40.ip4.tinet.net [89.149.183.113]
 10   175 ms   107 ms   106 ms  xe-0-0-0.nyc41.ip4.tinet.net [89.149.180.158]
 11   125 ms   163 ms   120 ms  xe-0-0-0.was14.ip4.tinet.net [141.136.111.14]

Trace complete.

 

These traceroutes were done from different locations to kinda pinpoint the issue, but you can clearly see that as long as it doesn't touch the tinet-gw.customer.alter.net router there is no latency present.

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Platinum Contributor III
Platinum Contributor III
Posts: 5,881
Registered: ‎07-22-2009

Re: Routing / Latency issues

Message 9 of 77
(7,011 Views)

 tinet-gw.customer.alter.net    

 

 

So the red here indicates the company name

the blue tells us that it's a customer circuit

and then the orange tells us it belongs to MCI/Alter.net now owned by Verizon

 

 

So with that info, I think if you follow this with Verizon  - you will find that Tinet-gw just needs to buy more bandwidth.

 

I think tinet is just a transport provider and I am not sure how they relate with your gaming servers.  Maybe they are just a transport company contracted, or maybe that is the backbone provider for your game server and their peering point with Verizon.   

 

 

I am going to be very interested to see how verizon's Tier 2 responds to this.  If they have anything they can do other than tell the provider to buy more bandwidth or if there is an actual problem they can adjust and fix.


@chzoom wrote:

Took a few calls into Verizon to actually get someone that understood what was going on. Most of the tier 1 techs didn't know what traceroute or latency was and were not very helpful in allowing me to provide the information. I had to get a supervisor who was super helpful and assisted by remoting to my machine, running the same traceroutes that I provided here and forwarded them to Tier2 (at least I hope so). I'll respond here once I have more information.

 

I did want to add that this issue is even happening from some servers I have out of TX and even free ones I have tested from

 

Trace to tinet.net not going through tinet-gw.customer.alter.net - sourcing off verizon network

 

Hop(ms)(ms)(ms)      IP AddressHost name
  1   0   0      8.9.232.73 xe-5-3-0.edge3.dallas1.level3.net  
  0   0   0      4.69.145.205 ae-4-90.edge4.dallas3.level3.net  
  3   3   3      77.67.71.221 xe-8-1-2.dal33.ip4.tinet.net  
  39   39   39      89.149.183.70 xe-1-2-0.nyc41.ip4.tinet.net  
  42   39   39      141.136.111.14 xe-0-0-0.was14.ip4.tinet.net  

 

Trace to tinet.net going through tinet-gw.customer.alter.net - sourced from my machine on the fios network

 

  2     6 ms     6 ms     6 ms  lo0-100.PRVDRIxxxxxxx
  3     6 ms     6 ms     6 ms  G0-3-4-6.PRVDRI-LCR-22.verizon-gni.net [130.81.191.242]
  4     8 ms    42 ms    38 ms  ae2-0.BOS-BB-RTR2.verizon-gni.net [130.81.209.60]
  5    65 ms   128 ms    29 ms  ge-1-2-0-0.NY325-BB-RTR2.verizon-gni.net [130.81.17.24]
  6    17 ms    17 ms    17 ms  0.so-4-0-2.XT2.NYC4.ALTER.NET [152.63.1.57]
  7    19 ms    19 ms    17 ms  TenGigE0-7-2-0.GW8.NYC4.ALTER.NET [152.63.21.129]
  8   111 ms   107 ms   109 ms  tinet-gw.customer.alter.net [152.179.72.122]
  9   117 ms   129 ms   108 ms  xe-4-1-0.nyc40.ip4.tinet.net [89.149.183.113]
 10   175 ms   107 ms   106 ms  xe-0-0-0.nyc41.ip4.tinet.net [89.149.180.158]
 11   125 ms   163 ms   120 ms  xe-0-0-0.was14.ip4.tinet.net [141.136.111.14]

Trace complete.

 

These traceroutes were done from different locations to kinda pinpoint the issue, but you can clearly see that as long as it doesn't touch the tinet-gw.customer.alter.net router there is no latency present.




 

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Copper Contributor
Copper Contributor
Posts: 8
Registered: ‎01-20-2013

Re: Routing / Latency issues

Message 10 of 77
(6,901 Views)

I am experiencing the identical issue (as well as another friend with Fios in the NJ/Philly area). Game server in question for me is in Toronto, only ~300 miles away, and this routing hardly seems ideal to begin with, but this extra 100 MS at " tinet-gw.customer.alter.net" has been the real killer since Tuesday 15th. I can only hope it is being caused by a substantial upgrade or repair that is in progress.

 

During business hours on monday I will surely attempt some phone calls as well, but I am less than optimistic. I would hate to be forced to move to comcast over one bad hop on one bad network; I have never had any problem with my fios last longer than a few hours before.

 

C:\Users\******>tracert 70.42.29.65

Tracing route to 70.42.29.65 over a maximum of 30 hops

  1     1 ms     1 ms     1 ms  Wireless_Broadband_Router.home xxxxxxx
  2     8 ms     7 ms     5 ms  L100.PITBPAxxxxx

  3     8 ms     9 ms     8 ms  G0-1-1-6.PITBPA-LCR-22.verizon-gni.net [130.81.212.58]
  4    15 ms    18 ms    43 ms  xe-0-1-6-0.PHIL-BB-RTR2.verizon-gni.net [130.81.209.76]
  5    19 ms    18 ms    19 ms  xe-9-1-4-0.NY5030-BB-RTR2.verizon-gni.net [130.81.23.70]
  6    20 ms    18 ms    20 ms  0.so-0-0-0.XT2.NYC4.ALTER.NET [152.63.17.21]
  7    21 ms    22 ms    23 ms  TenGigE0-5-0-0.GW8.NYC4.ALTER.NET [152.63.21.65]

  8   115 ms   111 ms   136 ms  tinet-gw.customer.alter.net [152.179.72.122]

  9   153 ms   150 ms   150 ms  xe-4-3-0.tor10.ip4.tinet.net [89.149.184.110]
 10   141 ms   139 ms   144 ms  internap-gw.ip4.tinet.net [77.67.70.94]
 11   134 ms   136 ms   232 ms  border1.te9-1-bbnet2.tor001.pnap.net [70.42.24.196]
 12   145 ms   136 ms   130 ms  70.42.29.65

Trace complete.

 

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