Slow FIOS speed and router configuration
wdh777
Newbie

So I just got gigabit fios installed this week.  I'm getting speeds of 650-750 via ethernet on my computers.  But my wifi speeds vary greatly between 3.0-350 with an average of around 35.  This seems super slow to me.  My previous cable service averaged much higher wifi speeds despite much lower ethernet speeds.  I found one thread that seemed to imply fios doesn't work well with apple routers and I'm using multiple airport extremes in my house.  Fios won't support other equipment so I could have them come out and swap all my airport extremes to verizon extenders throughout my house with the single verizon router so they are responsible for the entire network but will the extenders all decrease the speed and I end up in the same position I am now?  Also will the extenders allow pass through ethernet ports?  Currently all my airport extremes are pluged into ethernet ports and I have multiple ethernet connections passing through each one.  Any suggestions?  Not happy that my devices and kids devices are buffering with gigabit internet.  Thanks

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Re: Slow FIOS speed and router configuration
smith6612
Community Leader
Community Leader

FiOS should work fine with Apple Airports. I would check to make sure that all of your Apple Airports are running on separate channels, and the same goes for your FiOS router. If you've got a roaming setup, where each access point and the FiOS router share the same network name, this is especially important.

Another tip to keep in mind is that, if you have more than two access points running in 5Ghz mode, and you're using "VHT80" or 80Mhz mode, there are a total of two standard 5Ghz channels available which are non-overlapping. There are a total of 5 if we include DFS channels, which fortunately the Quantum Gateway and the Apple Airports support, but may not be manually selectable. If you're dealing with too much overlap, reduce your channel size to 40Mhz. A Wi-Fi analyzer app on a laptop or a phone can help you visualize the Wi-Fi environment, and adjust channels accordingly.

Also. Last but not least. Make sure that your devices aren't overloading 2.4Ghz or connecting to 2.4Ghz when they should be trying to use 5Ghz. Turning down the 2.4Ghz power or shutting off 2.4Ghz all together on certain APs will help with this. This applies mostly if your 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz networks are named the same.

To answer the question about the Verizon extenders, the setup you have right now, with Airport Extremes hardwired back to the router throughout the house, should be a better setup than the FiOS extenders. The Extenders would end up having to share the bandwidth back to the router over Coax, which can be anywhere from 100Mbps to 800Mbps effective depending on your coax environment and whether all devices support MoCa 2.0 or not. The extenders would be easier to set up and use, though.

Re: Slow FIOS speed and router configuration
wdh777
Newbie

Thanks so much for this reply.  So I have 4 airport extremes in my house.  I checked the channels and they were set to automatic and the channel numbers for two of them were the same and the other two were also the same.  So I changed the channels to manual and made sure I had different channels for each 5g and 2.4 for each router.  Not sure if it matters what channel you assign to each as long as they are different?  I choose high numbers for 5g and low for 2.4 which is similar to what the routers were automatically choosing.  So it appears that this may have helped.  I'm now getting wifi speeds between 150-300 on my ipad throughout the house vs the average of 35 before and lows of like 1.0 at times.  I will continue to test this over the next 48 hours to make sure I'm not just testing during a lucky window.  I do have a different 5g network name vs 2.4 so it appears this was the main change that was needed.  Assuming this is truly a fix I can't thank you enough!!!  The speeds were driving me crazy and fios was no help.  It can be very difficult to trouble shoot this stuff.

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Re: Slow FIOS speed and router configuration
smith6612
Community Leader
Community Leader

Awesome! Glad to have helped.

Yes, so long as you choose channels which cause the routers to not overlap, you'll be fine.

With the 5Ghz channels, each channel is a 20Mhz non-overlapping channel. So if your router is using 20Mhz and it displays 4 channels (36, 40, 44, and 48) and then 4 upper (149, 153, 157, 161), each of those are non-overlapping. You can pick from any, and they won't overlap with other access points in your home. 

In 40Mhz mode, you'll consume two of the channels instead of just one. What I like to do in this case, is pick channels on opposite sides of the lower and upper part of the spectrum. So if I set one access point to channel 149, I'll set the other to 161. This way, the access point at channel 149 is forced to use Channel 153 (unless it wants to use DFS), and the other access point is forced to use either channel 163 (not always supported by all devices) or channel 157.

Now in 80Mhz mode, you'll consume 4 channels. So if you have two access points, it doesn't matter whether you choose channel 36, 40, 44, or 48. The access point is going to use all four of those. Any other access point will then need to use the range from channels 149 to 161 to avoid overlap.

Let's say you have more than two access points you want to run in 5Ghz but also run at 80Mhz mode. In 5Ghz, there are "DFS" Channels which exists starting from Channel 44 to Channel 144. Within this range, you can have another three access points set to VHT80, and remember, take your channels as they appear for 20Mhz mode, and count by four to separate them from overlap.

Hope this helps with your channel planning :-).

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Re: Slow FIOS speed and router configuration
wdh777
Newbie

Thanks.  Just had about ten minutes where I was getting 3.0 downloads speeds and then back to 150 or so.  Hope I wasn't just testing at a lucky time?  Does seem more stable.  I wonder if my ipad wifi chip is the issue as even the computer wifi seems much more stable.  Or if I'm wondering around rooms and my wifi ipad chip isn't switching routers to the closest one.  So for the four routers I'm using channels 161, 157, 153 and 149 for the 5G network.  I can't tell using the airport utility if I'm running 40 or 80, none of the sub menus seem to have an option of 40 vs 80 so maybe the airport extremes just to this for you or only support one of them?  Do the channels listed above make sense to you?  The 5G channels available via airport utility are 36, 40, 44, 48, 149, 153, 157 and 161.  Not sure if I would be better off using two low and two high so like 36, 48, 149 and 161 so provide as much space in between as possible?  Thanks again for you feedback!!

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Re: Slow FIOS speed and router configuration
wdh777
Newbie

A few more questions in addition to whether I should be using channel selection for 5G of 36, 48, 149 and 161 instead.  I don't know the channel my verizon router is using for 5G any idea of what the default channel is?  Want to make sure I'm not manually selecting the same channel for one of the airports or maybe it doesn't matter?  They didn't even tell me the password for the verizon wifi network since I'm using the airports.  

So my configureation in airport utility is internet on top level, garage airport one level down that is plugged into the verizon router, and three airports one level down from that being basement, family room and office one on each floor of the house.  

Security is set to wpa2 personal for all four airports

Router mode is set to off/bridge mode for all four airports vs dhcp and nat or dhp only

wifi mode set to create wireless network for all four vs extend wireless network or off

Also, should I worry about wireless clients or is this done automatically?  The number of these vary over time for each routers.  Each will have between 0-4 at any given time with signal strenghs ranging from good to excellent and speeds ranging between 40 mb/s-468.  

Sorry for all the questions but you have been amazingly helpful so far.  

Thanks!

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Re: Slow FIOS speed and router configuration
smith6612
Community Leader
Community Leader

Do your Airports happen to be an older generation 802.11n model or are they the 802.11ac models? 802.11ac models are the ones which support 80Mhz wide channels. Anything otherwise would be 40Mhz maximum.

Apple has a KB here which is suggesting that Airport Utility has the ability to change the channel widths: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202068

The newer version of AirPort Utility isn't exactly spectacular, so if needed, you might need to find an older version to try.

I would recommend using two low and two high in this case. You'll need to use that arrangement if you're running 40Mhz Wide channels. Channels 36, 48, 149, and 161 should be selected if you have four Airports. If you have more than four Airports, set four of them each to one of the channels above, and then set the remainder to "Auto" channel mode. Set up the Auto mode ones last, as these will scan for channels and then move themselves over to DFS 5Ghz channels (Which require auto).

By default the Quantum G1100 is set to Auto channel selection. If you don't need the Wi-Fi on it, it's best to disable the Wi-Fi radios in it. That can be done via the web GUI at http://192.168.1.1/ . The login information is found on the side of the router on a sticker. But if you do need it, go to the Wireless Settings in the Web GUI, and you should be able to find the settings for selecting channels. Toss the G1100 into the range between Channel 52 and 144 and it'll use a DFS channel. Otherwise leave it set to auto, and it should use a DFS channel with your other Airports broadcasting.

Your configuration of the Airports is otherwise correct.

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Re: Slow FIOS speed and router configuration
wdh777
Newbie

The airports are definately ac as I upgraded all of them a few years back when the ipads finally could support the ac standard.  So the link you attached was helpful, although my interpretation is that is is telling you how to set up any router for use with a mac/IOS vs an airport with airport utility.  I assume that would explain why I can't find a toggle for 80/40/20 or a/c/n, etc..  I figure other branded routers let you change these settings vs the airport utility automatically chooses these settings?  In any event I changed the channels to the four you recommended and I only have the four airports so no need for the 5th on auto.  Good to know the verizon router is likely set on auto for channel.  Results are encouraging so I'll see if this is still the case after a few days.  Meanwhile I'm not sure if it is just me but trying to get on this forum with my ipad or mac is very difficult as the pages glitch all the time.  I'm borrowing my sons gaming pc and it works perfectly.  Not sure how a forum like this has tech issues with apple products??

Thanks again!!!  Verizon needs to hire you or better off become a consultant.  For homes that require more than one router it is very difficult to find someone who understands this.  The fios folks are like not our problem, a/v installation guys know tvs but not the internet settings, etc..   I really appreciate your help on this!!

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Re: Slow FIOS speed and router configuration
smith6612
Community Leader
Community Leader

You're welcome!

Wireless is certainly a tricky animal. There's no one way to do it. All one can do is buy good equipment, do the best job possible planning out the network, and adjust it from there. It can be a time consuming process of tweaking things to be perfect.

For the iPad Forum issues, I would personally suggest using the desktop site. The mobile site is exceptionally buggy. 😕

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