Slow or non-existent connection to some sites during evening hours
PilotBob
Enthusiast - Level 2

I originally noticed an issue when using Amazon streaming on my roku, however, this doesn't seem to be limited by that. 

When using speedtest.net I get full speed on some servers 50/25 and very slow speeds on some other servers. 4-6 down, upload is usually fine. It generally seems like speedtesting to rapidsystem servers in Tampa was slow d/l speeds. But, T3 COmunications server in (Ft Myers) test full 55/38 connection speed, excellent. 

I did some pings and took some traceroutes. Please convert this to a support issue. 

c:\> tracert rapidsys.com
Tracing route to rapidsys.com [209.84.253.40]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms WRT610N [192.168.1.1]
2 4 ms 4 ms 4 ms 10.38.37.86
3 10 ms 6 ms 14 ms G0-3-3-4.TAMPFL-LCR-22.verizon-gni.net [130.81.110.222]
4 6 ms 7 ms 6 ms ae2-0.TPA01-BB-RTR2.verizon-gni.net [130.81.199.82]
5 11 ms 12 ms 11 ms 0.ae2.BR1.MIA19.ALTER.NET [152.63.87.178]
6 64 ms 67 ms 69 ms 204.255.168.30
7 64 ms 66 ms 72 ms be2054.ccr21.mia01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.80.41]
8 78 ms 76 ms 72 ms te2-8.ccr01.tpa01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.80.222]
9 76 ms 76 ms 76 ms te4-1.mag01.tpa01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.1.54]
10 74 ms 72 ms 71 ms L3router.rapidsys.com [38.104.150.50]
11 * * * Request timed out.
12 * * * Request timed out.
13 * * * Request timed out.
14 * * * Request timed out.

15 *

C:\Users\Bob> ping rapidsys.com

Pinging rapidsys.com [209.84.253.40] with 32 bytes of data&colon;
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.

Ping statistics for 209.84.253.40:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 0, Lost = 4 (100% loss),

C:\Users\Bob> ping amazon.com

Pinging amazon.com [72.21.194.212] with 32 bytes of data&colon;
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.

Ping statistics for 72.21.194.212:
Packets: Sent = 3, Received = 0, Lost = 3 (100% loss),
Control-C

C:\Users\Bob> ping google.com

Pinging google.com [65.196.188.21] with 32 bytes of data&colon;
Reply from 65.196.188.21: bytes=32 time=7ms TTL=59
Reply from 65.196.188.21: bytes=32 time=6ms TTL=59
Reply from 65.196.188.21: bytes=32 time=6ms TTL=59
Reply from 65.196.188.21: bytes=32 time=8ms TTL=59

Ping statistics for 65.196.188.21:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 6ms, Maximum = 8ms, Average = 6ms

 

C:\Users\Bob> ping microsoft.com

Pinging microsoft.com [64.4.11.37] with 32 bytes of data&colon;
Request timed out.
Request timed out.

Ping statistics for 64.4.11.37:
Packets: Sent = 2, Received = 0, Lost = 2 (100% loss),
Control-C

C:\Users\Bob> ping amazonaws.com

Pinging amazonaws.com [72.21.210.29] with 32 bytes of data&colon;
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.

Ping statistics for 72.21.210.29:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 0, Lost = 4 (100% loss),

C:\Users\Bob> ping netflix.com

Pinging netflix.com [69.53.236.17] with 32 bytes of data&colon;
Reply from 69.53.236.17: bytes=32 time=82ms TTL=244
Reply from 69.53.236.17: bytes=32 time=81ms TTL=244
Reply from 69.53.236.17: bytes=32 time=81ms TTL=244
Reply from 69.53.236.17: bytes=32 time=82ms TTL=244

Ping statistics for 69.53.236.17:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 81ms, Maximum = 82ms, Average = 81ms

C:\Users\Bob> ping infor.com

Pinging infor.com [207.54.49.200] with 32 bytes of data&colon;
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.

Ping statistics for 207.54.49.200:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 0, Lost = 4 (100% loss),
C:\Users\Bob> tracert microsoft.com

Tracing route to microsoft.com [64.4.11.37]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms WRT610N [192.168.1.1]
2 3 ms 4 ms 4 ms 10.38.37.86
3 6 ms 7 ms 7 ms G0-3-3-4.TAMPFL-LCR-21.verizon-gni.net [130.81.109.248]
4 5 ms 29 ms 6 ms ae1-0.TPA01-BB-RTR1.verizon-gni.net [130.81.199.74]
5 11 ms 11 ms * 0.ae2.XL1.MIA19.ALTER.NET [152.63.8.113]
6 11 ms 11 ms 12 ms 0.xe-8-1-0.GW1.MIA19.ALTER.NET [152.63.84.198]
7 * * * Request timed out.
8 * * * Request timed out.
9 * * * Request timed out.
10 * * * Request timed out.
11 * * * Request timed out.
12 * * C:\Users\Bob>
C:\Users\Bob> tracert amazonaws.com

Tracing route to amazonaws.com [72.21.210.29]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 9 ms <1 ms <1 ms WRT610N [192.168.1.1]
2 22 ms 4 ms 4 ms 10.38.37.86
3 9 ms 7 ms 7 ms G0-3-3-4.TAMPFL-LCR-21.verizon-gni.net [130.81.109.248]
4 14 ms 4 ms 6 ms ae1-0.TPA01-BB-RTR1.verizon-gni.net [130.81.199.74]
5 10 ms 11 ms 12 ms 0.ae1.BR1.MIA19.ALTER.NET [152.63.87.162]
6 43 ms 45 ms 44 ms 204.255.168.42
7 * * * Request timed out.
8 * * * Request timed out.
9 * * * Request timed out.

 

C:\Users\Bob> ping mail.google.com

Pinging googlemail.l.google.com [173.194.37.149] with 32 bytes of data&colon;
Reply from 173.194.37.149: bytes=32 time=10ms TTL=57
Reply from 173.194.37.149: bytes=32 time=12ms TTL=57
Reply from 173.194.37.149: bytes=32 time=11ms TTL=57
Reply from 173.194.37.149: bytes=32 time=12ms TTL=57

Ping statistics for 173.194.37.149:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 10ms, Maximum = 12ms, Average = 11ms
C:\Users\Bob> tracert mail.google.com

Tracing route to googlemail.l.google.com [173.194.37.149]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms WRT610N [192.168.1.1]
2 8 ms 4 ms 4 ms 10.38.37.86
3 8 ms 6 ms 7 ms G0-3-3-3.TAMPFL-LCR-21.verizon-gni.net [130.81.185.94]
4 7 ms 7 ms 49 ms ae1-0.TPA01-BB-RTR1.verizon-gni.net [130.81.199.74]
5 11 ms 12 ms 11 ms 0.ae2.XL1.MIA19.ALTER.NET [152.63.8.113]
6 34 ms 39 ms 11 ms 0.xe-8-0-0.GW1.MIA19.ALTER.NET [152.63.84.182]
7 47 ms 46 ms 46 ms google-gw.customer.alter.net [63.65.188.38]
8 14 ms 11 ms 11 ms 209.85.253.120
9 11 ms 11 ms 12 ms 209.85.241.145
10 12 ms 11 ms 11 ms mia05s18-in-f21.1e100.net [173.194.37.149]

Trace Complete

----

These were run on a desktop connected via enternet NOT WiFi. So, wifi dropouts are not an issue. My Roku is also connected via ethernet.

BTW: This could also occur during the day, I'm just not home to know about it.

Please make this a support issue. 

thanks,

BOb

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Re: Slow or non-existent connection to some sites during evening hours
walt178
Specialist - Level 3

Verizon does not--and can not--guarantee speed to every site.  That is also true for every other ISP.   Nor can they prevent some sites from experiencing congestion at peak traffic times, such as the evening.  

Re: Slow or non-existent connection to some sites during evening hours
PilotBob
Enthusiast - Level 2

That's not really an answer so much as a cop out.

re-tested at noon and 2pm on Saturday... still seeing issues. It is always possible that there is some misconfigured route, a bad bidge somewhere that only affects certain routes. 

I don't expect a garuntee but I do expect best efforts.... It wouldn't take long for a network technictino to run some tests on these routes and see if there are any issues.

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Re: Slow or non-existent connection to some sites during evening hours
PilotBob
Enthusiast - Level 2

I am 100% sure it is not my PC, or router or ONT. SpeedTest to verizon's speedtest consistently shows 50/25 or better. So, that verifies that from Verizons backbone to me is working as expected. It is only when I reach out to certian routes that I see this slow down. 

This tells me one of two things is happening.

1. Verizon has a routing configuration issue or a hardware problem on a switch causing issues.

2. Verizon is throttling certain traffic. 

From reading the internet and also doing test with a VPN is seems like item 2 is the most likley. Seeing how both Netflix and Amazon video streaming are accessed via these routes it seems that they are trying to keep customers from accesing those competing services using their network.

I would like to give them the benefit of the doubt and hope it is issue 1, which is why I am reporting this. Is there some other way to open a support issue online with Verizon? If so, I don't see it. I thought VZ support monitored these forums.

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Re: Slow or non-existent connection to some sites during evening hours
db909
Contributor - Level 3

@PilotBob wrote:

I am 100% sure it is not my PC, or router or ONT. SpeedTest to verizon's speedtest consistently shows 50/25 or better. So, that verifies that from Verizons backbone to me is working as expected. It is only when I reach out to certian routes that I see this slow down. 

This tells me one of two things is happening.

1. Verizon has a routing configuration issue or a hardware problem on a switch causing issues.

2. Verizon is throttling certain traffic. 

From reading the internet and also doing test with a VPN is seems like item 2 is the most likley. Seeing how both Netflix and Amazon video streaming are accessed via these routes it seems that they are trying to keep customers from accesing those competing services using their network.

I would like to give them the benefit of the doubt and hope it is issue 1, which is why I am reporting this. Is there some other way to open a support issue online with Verizon? If so, I don't see it. I thought VZ support monitored these forums.


They aren't  "throttling" certain traffic which would get them in serious trouble with the government.   What they are doing is allowing their CDN ports to get maxed out aka:

"the rules never governed peering. Verizon could always harm Netflix (and other) traffic if it chose to do so simply by failing to upgrade peering infrastructure in a timely manner."

http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/02/netflix-performance-on-verizon-and-comcast-has...

Call it slight of hand, in terms of impact it is the same, but that is what FIOS is doing and unfortunately it is perfectly legal.  A prime reason the ISPs should be forced to divest competing / monopolistic parts of their business.

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Re: Slow or non-existent connection to some sites during evening hours
PilotBob
Enthusiast - Level 2

@db909 wrote:They aren't  "throttling" certain traffic which would get them in serious trouble with the government.   What they are doing is allowing their CDN ports to get maxed out aka:

 


You sure about that?

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-01-14/verizon-wins-net-neutrality-court-ruling-against-fcc.html

Re: Slow or non-existent connection to some sites during evening hours
tampasailor
Newbie

PilotBob thanks your detailed posting.  I am having the same trouble.  Out webpage hosts are supergeeks on the backbone in Santa Clara and we have Vios 30/50 fiber and we have trouble getting our pop mail.  100 time outs in a row not un common.  Almost unworkable. After much work by our webhost Netgate, we were able to see the bottle neck at a fiber service called Cogent http://www.cogentco.com/ I further found that Verizon attornies are trying to resolve this issue with Cogent. Pressure on both companies will boost the urgency.

Some of the problem blamed on excessive traffic from YouTube and Netflix.

Our website http://naval.com is fast on a slow brighthouse connection and bogs down on our 30/50 Vios connection often and sometimes shuts down completely.

there is another time out every 10 minutes when polling for email

[*] Connection established to 205.214.170.248
>> 0048 +OK POP3 xxx.netgate.net 2006f.96 server ready
<< 0012 USER xxxxxxxxxx
>> 0041 +OK User name accepted, password please
<< 0015 PASS XXXXXXXX
8: Socket read timeout.

This is part of the problem http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/02/verizon-seeks-payment-for-carrying-netflix-tra...

Report from Netgate

> ccr01.sjc09#trace ip
>
> Target IP address: 72.77.207.133
> Source address: 38.127.224.73
> Numeric display [n]:
> Timeout in seconds [3]:
> Probe count [3]:
> Minimum Time to Live [1]:
> Maximum Time to Live [30]:
> Port Number [33434]:
> Loose, Strict, Record, Timestamp, Verbose[none]:
> Type escape sequence to abort.
> Tracing the route to pool-72-77-207-133.tampfl.dsl-w.verizon.net (72.77.207.133)
>
>   1 te0-2-0-7.ccr21.sjc01.atlas.cogentco.com (154.54.27.21) 0 msec
>     te0-2-0-7.ccr22.sjc01.atlas.cogentco.com (154.54.27.13) 0 msec
>     te0-2-0-7.ccr21.sjc01.atlas.cogentco.com (154.54.27.21) 0 msec
>   2 be2047.ccr21.sjc03.atlas.cogentco.com (154.54.5.114) 4 msec
>     be2000.ccr21.sjc03.atlas.cogentco.com (154.54.6.106) 4 msec
>     be2047.ccr21.sjc03.atlas.cogentco.com (154.54.5.114) 4 msec
>   3 verizon.sjc03.atlas.cogentco.com (154.54.12.170) 0 msec 0 msec 0 msec  <----99% to verizon equipment
>   4 P0-10-0-0.TAMPFL-LCR-21.verizon-gni.net (130.81.199.27) [AS 701] 84 msec 84 msec 88 msec <------ 54% packet loss to
> verizon in Florida.
>   5  *  *  *
>   6 pool-72-77-207-133.tampfl.dsl-w.verizon.net (72.77.207.133) [AS 701] 116 msec 108 msec 116 msec
>   7 pool-72-77-207-133.tampfl.dsl-w.verizon.net (72.77.207.133) [AS 701] 112 msec 120 msec 116 msec
> ccr01.sjc09#ping ip 72.77.207.133 so 38.127.224.73
>
> Type escape sequence to abort.
> Sending 5, 100-byte ICMP Echos to 72.77.207.133, timeout is 2 seconds:
> Packet sent with a source address of 38.127.224.73
> ..!!..
> Success rate is 40 percent (2/5), round-trip min/avg/max = 124/124/124 ms
> ccr01.sjc09#ping ip 130.81.199.27 so 38.127.224.73
>
> Type escape sequence to abort.
> Sending 5, 100-byte ICMP Echos to 130.81.199.27, timeout is 2 seconds:
> Packet sent with a source address of 38.127.224.73
> ..!!.!.!!!.!!...!!.!.!.
> Success rate is 54 percent (12/22), round-trip min/avg/max = 120/130/136 ms
> ccr01.sjc09#ping 154.54.12.170 so 38.127.224.73
>
> Type escape sequence to abort.
> Sending 5, 100-byte ICMP Echos to 154.54.12.170, timeout is 2 seconds:
> Packet sent with a source address of 38.127.224.73
> !!!!!
> Success rate is 100 percent (5/5), round-trip min/avg/max = 20/21/24 ms
> ccr01.sjc09#ping 154.54.12.170 so 38.127.224.73 rep 1000
>
> Type escape sequence to abort.
> Sending 1000, 100-byte ICMP Echos to 154.54.12.170, timeout is 2 seconds:
> Packet sent with a source address of 38.127.224.73
> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.!
> snip
> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> Success rate is 99 percent (999/1000), round-trip min/avg/max = 20/43/300 ms
> ccr01.sjc09#
 
I hope to have some verbage from Verizon today that might better explain.
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Re: Slow or non-existent connection to some sites during evening hours
SoNi67
Contributor - Level 1

They can legally throttle the traffic NOW. And they started right away after a judge let them do it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/20/business/fcc-to-propose-new-rules-on-open-internet.html?_r=0

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Re: Slow or non-existent connection to some sites during evening hours
PilotBob
Enthusiast - Level 2

I would still like them to verify either...

1. There might be a problem and are looking at it.

or

2. They are throllling the traffic.

Doesn't verizon considering this official support forum? If not, how you you create a support ticket?

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Re: Slow or non-existent connection to some sites during evening hours
KaLin
Khoros Partner
Khoros Partner

The Verizon Community Forums is where customers help other customers
If you need assistance for specific Verizon account issues, please contact us.

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