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Southern California FIOS excessive hopping (BAD LAG)

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Darn
Nickel Contributor
Nickel Contributor
Posts: 31
Registered: ‎08-14-2010

Southern California FIOS excessive hopping (BAD LAG)

Message 1 of 5
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Ive called fios about this issue multiple times and they have still yet to fix anything. Is 25 hops to google normal? Is routing me across the country( sometimes multiple times back and fourth) efficient? This issue is killing my online gaming. Verizon advertises that fios is the best for online gaming but with all these inefficient routers i don't see how it can be.  115ms ping times to google is bad on its own so you can imagine how bad it is on xbox live. Its basically unplayable. Here is a video of someone else having the same issue so i KNOW i am not the only one. I feel like because most people probably dont game a whole lot this issue isn't at the top of verizons to-do list but its getting annoying. Could a mod or someone please put me in touch with a person who will fix this issue. I have about 40 traceroute logs that are over 20 hops!! to sites like google, espn, yahoo.  Almost everytime the route is different depending on the time of day. If you are reading this and are having lag issues i suggest you download a traceroute program and post your results to this thread because calling their tech support and talking to some guy in India for an hour will get you nowhere. PLEASE HELP!!

 

DARN

4 REPLIES 4
lasagna
Gold Contributor VII Gold Contributor VII
Gold Contributor VII
Posts: 2,002
Registered: ‎05-27-2010

Re: Southern California FIOS excessive hopping (BAD LAG)

Message 2 of 5
(4,067 Views)

That video has got to be one of the worst "analysis" of a problem I think I've ever seen.   No ... I take that back ... some of the other posts which come up as "related" are far worse and in some cases even laughable.  But, let's try to take a look at what he's showing on his screen and complaining about.  

 

First, router hops does not necessarily equal latency.   While the first 7 or 8 hops in his diagram are Verizon local and Alter.net (also Verizon) hops, look at the latency thru all those hops ... less than 20ms.   That's pretty darn good and not atypical in today's networking.   Many of today's layer 3 switch routers do the packet handling at the port/card level and can very quickly move traffic without introducing much if any noticable latency. 

 

What happens next?  Well, it dumps into Level3 -- which is a different provider and from there the routing traffic takes  to the final destination is NOT within Verizon's control.    A full 2/3's of the transit of this session happens on Non-Verizon networks.   Now, perhaps Verizon could add some more peering points in their network, but at the end of the day, internet routing is a funny thing where you're dependent on the route information coming into your network when calculating least cost (network speedwise) paths.   This could be a condemnation of the overall infrastructure of backbone internet providers in California -- but it's hardly one based solely on the video posted  which points at Verizon.

 

The guy goes on to complain about 100ms+ latency and the screen shot clearly shows 70ms or less all of it picked up from other carriers networks.  A little truth in advertising if you're going to make a rant is probably appropriate.  With that said, I hit 12 hops to the same site and I get low 20ms RTT's, so that is substantially different (the server in question being Google's public DNS -- which is probably AnyCast, so there is no certainty that I ended up on the same server this individual did).  A 60-70ms RTT for coast to coast traffic, for instance, is a physics-based reality (that silly little "speed of light" thing).  Interestingly enough, I've seen poor performance to Xbox live and when I ran some analysis, the latency was all coming from the last two to three hops -- capacity issues close to the Xbox-live could, not the local or intermediate networks.

 

Now, I don't know your professional background as it relates to carrier class wide-area networking, so maybe you have some other pertinent information which you can add to what you provided so far, but at a minimum, why don't you post some of the traceroutes you made and let folks here take a look? Worst case you'll not resolve the issue, but you'll get some confirmation of your speculation that you're indeed barking up the right tree.

 

 

Justin
Platinum Contributor III Platinum Contributor III
Platinum Contributor III
Posts: 5,173
Registered: ‎08-05-2008

Re: Southern California FIOS excessive hopping (BAD LAG)

Message 3 of 5
(4,037 Views)

I don't know if this adds anything to the discussion or not, but I just did a tracert to www.google.com and got this:


C:\Users\Justin>tracert www.google.com

Tracing route to www.l.google.com [209.85.225.105]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  192.168.1.1
  2     2 ms     1 ms     1 ms  10.33.34.55
  3     3 ms     2 ms     2 ms  G4-2-858.DLLSTX-LCR-08.verizon-gni.net [130.81.107.128]
  4     4 ms     3 ms     3 ms  so-6-2-0-0.DFW01-BB-RTR2.verizon-gni.net [130.81.28.210]
  5     5 ms     5 ms     5 ms  0.so-7-1-0.XT4.DFW9.ALTER.NET [152.63.0.109]
  6     5 ms     5 ms     5 ms  0.so-1-2-0.XL4.DFW7.ALTER.NET [152.63.98.81]
  7     5 ms     5 ms     5 ms  TenGigE0-5-0-0.GW4.DFW13.ALTER.NET [152.63.97.197]
  8     5 ms     4 ms     4 ms  google-gw.customer.alter.net [152.179.51.30]
  9     6 ms     6 ms     6 ms  72.14.233.85
 10    13 ms    13 ms    13 ms  209.85.243.178
 11    36 ms    35 ms    35 ms  209.85.255.223
 12    37 ms    36 ms    36 ms  209.85.241.35
 13    50 ms    37 ms    37 ms  66.249.95.138
 14    37 ms    37 ms    37 ms  iy-in-f105.1e100.net [209.85.225.105]

Trace complete.

C:\Users\Justin>

 

Seems pretty reasonable to me. I am in North Texas.

 

__________________________________
Justin
Verizon FiOS TV, Internet, and phone
QIP6416-P1, IMG 1.7.1, Build 09.97
Keller, TX 76248

lasagna
Gold Contributor VII Gold Contributor VII
Gold Contributor VII
Posts: 2,002
Registered: ‎05-27-2010

Re: Southern California FIOS excessive hopping (BAD LAG)

Message 4 of 5
(4,034 Views)

Well it is interesting ...  your path takes you across the Verizon backbone to a Google specific gateway on Alter.net (also Verizon) and then into Google's cloud.   The YouTube video showed the traffic going across Level3 which means for some reason that path looks more efficient from California than this direct attach gateway ...

 

However, I notice now that you went to www.google.com, the host in question in the example is their public DNS at: 8.8.8.8

 

 

Justin
Platinum Contributor III Platinum Contributor III
Platinum Contributor III
Posts: 5,173
Registered: ‎08-05-2008

Re: Southern California FIOS excessive hopping (BAD LAG)

Message 5 of 5
(4,021 Views)

 


@lasagna wrote:

Well it is interesting ...  your path takes you across the Verizon backbone to a Google specific gateway on Alter.net (also Verizon) and then into Google's cloud.   The YouTube video showed the traffic going across Level3 which means for some reason that path looks more efficient from California than this direct attach gateway ...

 

However, I notice now that you went to www.google.com, the host in question in the example is their public DNS at: 8.8.8.8

 


 

OK, here is a tracert to 8.8.8.8:

 

Microsoft Windows [Version 6.1.7600]
Copyright (c) 2009 Microsoft Corporation.  All rights reserved.

C:\Users\Justin>tracert 8.8.8.8

Tracing route to google-public-dns-a.google.com [8.8.8.8]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  192.168.1.1
  2     1 ms     1 ms     1 ms  10.33.34.55
  3     2 ms     2 ms     2 ms  G4-2-758.DLLSTX-LCR-07.verizon-gni.net [130.81.107.36]
  4     3 ms     3 ms     3 ms  so-6-2-0-0.DFW01-BB-RTR1.verizon-gni.net [130.81.28.208]
  5     3 ms     3 ms     3 ms  0.so-7-0-0.XL3.DFW7.ALTER.NET [152.63.1.89]
  6    41 ms     3 ms     3 ms  0.ae3.BR1.DFW13.ALTER.NET [152.63.96.45]
  7     4 ms     4 ms     4 ms  192.205.37.125
  8    25 ms    25 ms    25 ms  cr2.dlstx.ip.att.net [12.122.195.242]
  9    79 ms    26 ms    25 ms  cr1.attga.ip.att.net [12.122.28.173]
 10    29 ms    29 ms   174 ms  12.123.22.5
 11    53 ms    25 ms    25 ms  12.88.97.6
 12    31 ms    31 ms    31 ms  72.14.233.54
 13    30 ms    30 ms    30 ms  72.14.232.213
 14    34 ms     *        *     209.85.253.141
 15    26 ms    26 ms    26 ms  google-public-dns-a.google.com [8.8.8.8]

Trace complete.

C:\Users\Justin>

 

Certainly different routing but still fairly reasonable from here in North Texas I think, only one really bad one.

 

__________________________________
Justin
Verizon FiOS TV, Internet, and phone
QIP6416-P1, IMG 1.7.1, Build 09.97
Keller, TX 76248

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