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Variability in Pings to Next Hop Gateway in Tracert to www.verizon.net

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Hubrisnxs
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Posts: 5,881
Registered: ‎07-22-2009

Re: Variability in Pings to Next Hop Gateway in Tracert to www.verizon.net

Message 11 of 22
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Verizon doesn't offer SLA's for DSL and FiOS connections, but they do offer it for fractional services, t1, ds3, oc3 and higher connections.   

prisaz
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Registered: ‎08-23-2008

Re: Variability in Pings to Next Hop Gateway in Tracert to www.verizon.net

Message 12 of 22
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@Hubrisnxs wrote:

Verizon doesn't offer SLA's for DSL and FiOS connections, but they do offer it for fractional services, t1, ds3, oc3 and higher connections.   


 

That is exactly what I was getting at. I am not the brightest bulb in the box, but I know that much.

 

For the OP.

What is the main issue you are having with your connection. Delays latency or just poor performance? I am in MD and have PPPOE for my Fios and my first hop is thought a private IP for my default gateway. My trace to your gateway. Look at this 80ms. Looks like all the routers are in the same DC location. But the registar can say anything. It is difficult to say exactly what they are doing with the traffic. Perhaps it's the NSA.Smiley Very Happy

tracetoyourgateway.JPG

MattLenco
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Registered: ‎02-12-2011

Re: Variability in Pings to Next Hop Gateway in Tracert to www.verizon.net

Message 13 of 22
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{please keep your posts courteous}....Cisco is an authoritative source on whether routing behavior is normal or not. From the documentation at the URL below Cisco states very clearly that "high erratic delay and loss within a sequence of ping packets may be symptomatic of routing instability with the network path oscillating between many path states".

 

http://www.cisco.com/web/about/ac123/ac147/archived_issues/ipj_6-1/measuring_ip.html

 

 

prisaz
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Registered: ‎08-23-2008

Re: Variability in Pings to Next Hop Gateway in Tracert to www.verizon.net

Message 14 of 22
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@MattLenco wrote:

..Cisco is an authoritative source on whether routing behavior is normal or not. From the documentation at the URL below Cisco states very clearly that "high erratic delay and loss within a sequence of ping packets may be symptomatic of routing instability with the network path oscillating between many path states".

 

http://www.cisco.com/web/about/ac123/ac147/archived_issues/ipj_6-1/measuring_ip.html

 

 


 

I just had to modify my post and quote you quoting Cisco. "may be symptomatic of routing instability" MAY being the key work.

Thanks for being understanding and yes do read below and educate us regarding your concerns.

 

I am not trying to put the kabosh on anything. If your issue being fixed makes things better for all of us, then great. I don't work for Verizon or get ANY benefit from participating in this community. Erratic routing does not surprise me. It is not MY ERRATIC ROUTING. After all we are all trying to get the best out of our service, and yes I do not always agree with Verizon, and many times totally disagree, and get just plain P. O. at them. So perhaps you can educated me as to why the erratic behavior is a big problem, or what you think this it will improve if it is corrected. Latency has been a big complaint of many people. Based on some of my rants, frankly I am surprised that I am kept as a CL. And no I am not a Cisco CNA or CNP. But have been around a while. So please educate us all. Your participation and posting can be beneficial to all. This is a peer to peer support community, and we try to help each other.

 

Like has been mentioned many times, some issues you will need to discuss directly with Verizon through the contact us link at the bottom of each page. Or Post an idea on the Ideas Exchange that may get their attention. I will pass on a link for this thread, to perhaps get some direct Verizon attention.

Anti-Phish
Gold Contributor III
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Posts: 1,122
Registered: ‎12-04-2009

Re: Variability in Pings to Next Hop Gateway in Tracert to www.verizon.net

Message 15 of 22
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MattLenco wrote:

32 residential customers saturating a 2.4Gb/s


I didn't say anything about saturating the link.  32*35Mbps = 1.1Gbps (assumes all 32 users have 35/35), which is nowhere near the 2.4Gbps available downstream. 

 

I was trying to explain what causes latency in a shared communications link.  What I explained is based on how Time Division Multiplexing (TDM) works.  If you don't want to read the wiki link Prisaz provided, you're free to read the ITU G.984.x GPON specifications.

http://www.itu.int/rec/T-REC-G.984.1-200803-I/en


MattLenco wrote:

SLA stands for service level agreement which all customers enter into when they subscribe to service.


Service Level Agreements dictate specific levels of performance, bandwidth, service restoration times, etc.

As Prisaz stated, FIOS has no such Service Level Agreements.

 

What you did agree to was Verizon Online Terms of Service, which specifically disclaims any performance guarantees.

From section 12.3 :

VERIZON DOES NOT WARRANT THAT THE SERVICE OR EQUIPMENT PROVIDED BY VERIZON WILL PERFORM AT A PARTICULAR SPEED, BANDWIDTH OR DATA THROUGHPUT RATE

Anti-Phish
Gold Contributor III
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Registered: ‎12-04-2009

Re: Variability in Pings to Next Hop Gateway in Tracert to www.verizon.net

Message 16 of 22
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@MattLenco wrote:

Cisco states very clearly that "high erratic delay and loss within a sequence of ping packets may be symptomatic of routing instability with the network path oscillating between many path states". 


You are taking that quote out of context.  We are discussing the latency between your router and the VZ edge router (nodes 1 and 2 in your traceroutes).  There is no routing between your router and the VZ edge router.  The fiber is the only path, therefore routing instability and path oscillation are irrelevent.

 

One possibility is that VZ's edge router (L100.WASHDC-VFTTP-115.verizon-gni.net [71.178.197.1]) is overloaded, resulting in delays getting packets to and from the multiple OLTs it services.

 

MattLenco
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Registered: ‎02-12-2011

Re: Variability in Pings to Next Hop Gateway in Tracert to www.verizon.net

Message 17 of 22
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"GPON must accomodate services that require a maximum mean signal transfer delay of 1.5ms".

Hubrisnxs
Platinum Contributor III
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Posts: 5,881
Registered: ‎07-22-2009

Re: Variability in Pings to Next Hop Gateway in Tracert to www.verizon.net

Message 18 of 22
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pings to the default gateway shouldn't be eratic like that,   antiphish is right, it points to possible congestion or a PON card that possibly needs to be replaced.  It also could be a wireless issue as well, if it turns out to that it's the PON card then you have to go through the normal troubleshooting that everyone goes through.  there isn't a good way to skip past those stages and simply have them replace a PON card or to speak with a noc tech directly, so you'll have to exercise one of the options listed in my first post. 

 

replacing a PON card for Verizon seems to be a really big deal, and they do it as a very very very last step usually.

 

 

So just out of curiosity, are you wired or wireless when you get this problem?   

 

 

The reason I ask, is because of your traceroutes where we observe this.

 

1st trace 

  1     2 ms     2 ms     2 ms  Wireless_Broadband_Router.home [192.168.1.1]

 

2nd trace

 

  1     2 ms     1 ms     1 ms  Wireless_Broadband_Router.home [192.168.1.1]

 

if you aren't seeing exactly 1ms to the 192.168.1.1 consistently then that throws up a possibility of a bad ethernet cable on that machine, or a bad router port on the router.  if you're hardwired change the port, and see if you can consistently get >1ms      

 

it may not in fact be a VZ problem. 

MattLenco
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Registered: ‎02-12-2011

Re: Variability in Pings to Next Hop Gateway in Tracert to www.verizon.net

Message 19 of 22
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I have conducted the continual ping test twice, one from a wireless laptop and one from a hardwired desktop. A ping test to my trusted side IP of the G2. A second ping test through the untrusted side IP to the next hop Gateway. Layer 1 has its share of contributing factors to a network performance problem but nobody wants to take the lumps to test gear, wait till it really breaks. That is the nature of the beast. It probably wasn't tested or tested with mediocre quality gear when it was connected up day 1.

Hubrisnxs
Platinum Contributor III
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Posts: 5,881
Registered: ‎07-22-2009

Re: Variability in Pings to Next Hop Gateway in Tracert to www.verizon.net

Message 20 of 22
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could be a bad router if it's happening on the hardwired as well. or a port or a bad nic.  we have seen on more than one occasion, a bad nic causing this issue, but it could really be any of the three mentioned.  you're first goal is to get >1ms to the router gateway IP before you pursue anything else. 

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