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Why are certain websites really slow unless I use a VPN?

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Bronze Contributor II
Bronze Contributor II
Posts: 214
Registered: ‎08-02-2013

Re: Why are certain websites really slow unless I use a VPN?

Message 31 of 46
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I don't see where amongst your numerous posts any links to substantiate your assertion that changing DNS would fix the Netflix streaming issue.

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Moderator Emeritus Moderator Emeritus
Moderator Emeritus
Posts: 6,232
Registered: ‎04-29-2009

Re: Why are certain websites really slow unless I use a VPN?

Message 32 of 46
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Just a reminder folks that the forum guidelines require that you be courteous and polite in your discussions.

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Platinum Contributor III
Platinum Contributor III
Posts: 5,881
Registered: ‎07-22-2009

Re: Why are certain websites really slow unless I use a VPN?

Message 33 of 46
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I gave it in the internet phenomena link

 

 

Back in May, Sandvine’s CTO Don Bowman talked to Ars Technica’s Jon Brodkin, about why Netflix performance improves on some ISPs when using a VPN.

 

 


What's clear is that somewhere in the path from Netflix servers to consumers' homes, there is congestion. It's also clear that some people have improved their own streaming video by using VPNs (virtual private networks) or third-party DNS (Domain Name System) services. (UnblockUs, mentioned above, is not technically a VPN service but it achieves a similar effect by changing your DNS settings.)

 

 

Routing around congestion

Sandvine cofounder and CTO Don Bowman talked to Ars this week about why VPN and DNS services can help relieve congestion for certain users. He also talked about the types of shady tactics both video streaming providers and ISPs could employ in their ongoing battles and how that could harm home Internet users.


 

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Nickel Contributor
Nickel Contributor
Posts: 36
Registered: ‎11-19-2013

Re: Why are certain websites really slow unless I use a VPN?

Message 34 of 46
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@Hubrisnxs wrote:

I gave it in the internet phenomena link

 

 

Back in May, Sandvine’s CTO Don Bowman talked to Ars Technica’s Jon Brodkin, about why Netflix performance improves on some ISPs when using a VPN.

 

 


What's clear is that somewhere in the path from Netflix servers to consumers' homes, there is congestion. It's also clear that some people have improved their own streaming video by using VPNs (virtual private networks) or third-party DNS (Domain Name System) services. (UnblockUs, mentioned above, is not technically a VPN service but it achieves a similar effect by changing your DNS settings.)

 

 

 

Routing around congestion

Sandvine cofounder and CTO Don Bowman talked to Ars this week about why VPN and DNS services can help relieve congestion for certain users. He also talked about the types of shady tactics both video streaming providers and ISPs could employ in their ongoing battles and how that could harm home Internet users.


 


I never heard of or used unblockus before this. I took at look at their website and it's clear they are doing more then just changing your DNS since you are in fact setting up a VPN network connection in order to use their service.

 

Doing a bit a googling though and it's clear that changing your DNS to use unblockus name server is NOT the same as just using another other name server. When you use unblockus's name server and you try to access a site that they support, their name server will return the address of unblockus's proxy server rather then the address of whatever site you are trying to visit.

 

So for example lets say www.netflix.com's address was 1.2.3.4. Normally any name server will return that address. When you use unblockus (assuming they support netflix) their name server will return the address of their proxy server, which lets say is  5.6.7.8. Their proxy server requests the content from netflix on your behalf and then forwards it to you.

 

So the traffic from netflix roughly flows like this:

1.2.3.4 (netflix) ---> 5.6.7.8 (unblockus proxy server) --> (you)

 

It ONLY does this because unblockus has a proxy server set up and their name server is set to return this proxy address for any sites they support. if they don't support the site, their name server returns the direct address of whatever site you are trying to reach

 

This is NOT how 99% of the name servers out there work. So this article doesn't really show that changing your name server will have any impact on streaming media, not unless it's something special like unblockus

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Platinum Contributor III
Platinum Contributor III
Posts: 5,881
Registered: ‎07-22-2009

Re: Why are certain websites really slow unless I use a VPN?

Message 35 of 46
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There is only one CDN provider (that I am familiar with)  that tries to not use DNS for their Geo Locate service and they consider themselves cutting edge.

 

Sorry it's just how it works, you have a plethora of info and google as a resource,   feel free to use it,

 

 

 

How content delivery networks (CDNs) work

 

 


When the browser makes a DNS request for a domain name that is handled by a CDN, there is a slightly different process than with small, one-IP sites. The server handling DNS requests for the domain name looks at the incoming request to determine the best set of servers to handle it. At it’s simplest, the DNS server does a geographic lookup based on the DNS resolver’s IP address and then returns an IP address for an edge server that is physically closest to that area. So if I’m making a request and the DNS resolver I’m routed to is Virginia, I’ll be given an IP address for a server on the East coast; if I make the same request through a DNS resolver in California, I’ll be given an IP address for a server on the West coast. You may not end up with a DNS resolver in the same geographic location from where you’re making the request.


 For this reason, VPN's and DNS changes will help some customers, but not everyone,   just like I mentioned earlier.

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Platinum Contributor III
Platinum Contributor III
Posts: 5,881
Registered: ‎07-22-2009

Re: Why are certain websites really slow unless I use a VPN?

Message 36 of 46
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Even Level 3 uses DNS in it's CDN network

 

 

 

http://blog.level3.com/level-3-network/a-flawed-study-of-cdns-and-dns/

 

 


@Hubrisnxs wrote:

There is only one CDN provider (that I am familiar with)  that tries to not use DNS for their Geo Locate service and they consider themselves cutting edge.

 

Sorry it's just how it works, you have a plethora of info and google as a resource,   feel free to use it,

 

 

 

How content delivery networks (CDNs) work

 

 


While a performance-based view of proximity may seem inherently better, in a widely distributed CDN, this approach could toggle an end-user back and forth between several geographically close CDN clusters with disastrous results for jitter-sensitive applications. Level 3’s DNS rendezvous system dynamically allocates the best content source based on both DNS location and a real time view of performance – the system makes appropriate use of the DNS infrastructure, but augments it with a very intelligent real time “weather map” of Internet latency measurements … trust with verification. This, in fact, is a large part of our “secret sauce”. If I tell you how it works I will have to shoot you :)


 

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Platinum Contributor III
Platinum Contributor III
Posts: 5,881
Registered: ‎07-22-2009

Re: Why are certain websites really slow unless I use a VPN?

Message 37 of 46
(918 Views)

Also feel free to read Sajal Kayan » In a CDN’d world, OpenDNS is the enemy!

 

 

He's overseas but it's the same no matter where you're at  

 


Conclusion

Using OpenDNS or Google Public DNS may be fast in resolving the DNS, but they do not give the ideal results.

In the case of Global DNS providers, the IP of the original requester is not passed along to the CDN’s DNS servers so they are unable to route the user to the nearest POP.

 

 

...

 

As you can see in the result tables above, when using OpenDNS from Thailand, trying to access static assets of Facebook, I am directed to a server in the USA whereas when using Google’s DNS i am directed to a server in Japan and when using my ISP’s DNS server I access content locally, hosted within my own ISPs network!

 

...

 

Bill Fumerola, ex-director of network engineering at OpenDNS confirms this problem on OpenDNS forums.


 

 

 

 

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Nickel Contributor
Nickel Contributor
Posts: 36
Registered: ‎11-19-2013

Re: Why are certain websites really slow unless I use a VPN?

Message 38 of 46
(913 Views)

@Hubrisnxs wrote:

Even Level 3 uses DNS in it's CDN network

 

 

 

http://blog.level3.com/level-3-network/a-flawed-study-of-cdns-and-dns/

 

 


@Hubrisnxs wrote:

There is only one CDN provider (that I am familiar with)  that tries to not use DNS for their Geo Locate service and they consider themselves cutting edge.

 

Sorry it's just how it works, you have a plethora of info and google as a resource,   feel free to use it,

 

 

 

How content delivery networks (CDNs) work

 

 


While a performance-based view of proximity may seem inherently better, in a widely distributed CDN, this approach could toggle an end-user back and forth between several geographically close CDN clusters with disastrous results for jitter-sensitive applications. Level 3’s DNS rendezvous system dynamically allocates the best content source based on both DNS location and a real time view of performance – the system makes appropriate use of the DNS infrastructure, but augments it with a very intelligent real time “weather map” of Internet latency measurements … trust with verification. This, in fact, is a large part of our “secret sauce”. If I tell you how it works I will have to shoot you :)


 


wow - i didnt know that. That's a really stupid way to determine someone's location. at least level3 auguments that.

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Platinum Contributor III
Platinum Contributor III
Posts: 5,881
Registered: ‎07-22-2009

Re: Why are certain websites really slow unless I use a VPN?

Message 39 of 46
(912 Views)

Also see http://00f.net/2012/02/22/akamai-vs-public-dns-servers/

on this issue, and how OpenDNS and Google are actually trying to solve it. 

 

 

They say


There are different ways to achieve this, but a very common one, that Akamai also relies on, is to leverage the DNS system.


 

 

When your client wants to resolve www.apple.com, Akamai DNS servers are going to give different replies according to the source IP address.

 

But what source IP address? Yours? Not always. What Akamai consider is actually the IP address of the DNS resolver hitting their servers. If you're using a local resolver, that's cool. Akamai will know your exact IP address, and hopefully redirect you to the closest server.

 

If you're using your ISP's resolver, this is the IP Akamai will consider in order to pick the server that will process your query. The result may be the same as if you had used a local resolver. Or not. If the DNS resolver is on a different subnet, Akamai can get confused and you can be redirected to a server that actually is way off base.

 

If you're using OpenDNS, Google DNS, Norton, Level 3, any other public DNS service, or any other remote DNS resolver (for example, through a VPN connection), Akamai will see the source IP address of your remote resolver, too. Nor yours.

 

And the server they will redirect you to would probably be an excellent choice if you were Google or OpenDNS. But the very same server can be a very poor choice for you.

 

 


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Platinum Contributor III
Platinum Contributor III
Posts: 5,881
Registered: ‎07-22-2009

Re: Why are certain websites really slow unless I use a VPN?

Message 40 of 46
(910 Views)

It is a stupid way, I agree.   But it's how it's always been done

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