Will 400/400 Work Over Coax?

[zukdj]

I spent 3 hours on chat with a FIOS representative yesterday because my 100/100 deal is expiring. They offered me the 400/400 at a minimal increase and said they could "turn it on remotely" but would schedule a tech visit. I explained from the very beginning that I use coax and was assured 400/400 would be fine over coax. I also utilize coax for a MOCA network and own 3 FIOS extenders and a G1100 router. I was told I was good to go so signed the order. Today I called Verizon directly after another 2 hours of chat and was told I must switch to CAT6 in order to use the 400/400 service and they don't know if my MOCA network will be accessible once I switch to CAT6 exclusively. I have TIVO's for cable boxes and rely on cable cards instead of the rental fees of cable boxes. I am beyond frustrated and to make matters worse I searched the forums first and every post lead to 400/400 working over coax. Insult to injury, wasted 5+ hours of my time and if I want to stay with 100/100 they are still increasing the price. 99% of the customer service I had were so misinformed when I gave them ALL THE INFORMATION AHEAD OF TIME!

[gs0b]

Welcome to the forums!  You're talking mostly to other users here.

There are TWO networks involved in this issue.  The WAN link from the ONT to your router, and the LAN link from the router to your devices.

MoCA LAN, which is what your TiVOs and other listed devices use, works fine with 400Mbps speed.  There is no need to replace your LAN coax network with Ethernet when upgrading speed.

For speeds above 100Mbps, Ethernet must be used for the WAN link from the ONT.  If you don't already have an Ethernet cable running between the ONT and the router, one will need to be installed.  This may be something you can do yourself, depending on the locations of the ONT and router.  If not, Verizon will send a tech to install the Ethernet cable.  Or you can hire your own contractor.

Once the WAN Ethernet cable is run, Verizon will switch the ONT from MoCA WAN to Ethernet WAN.  If a tech runs the cable, they will take care of the switch.  If you run the cable yourself, you can contact Verizon support and they can do the switch in a matter of minutes at no charge.  Once it's done, you can upgrade to any speed online; no tech visit required.  For best results, contact their support via chat or social media support (tweet @verizonsupport or find their facebook page.)

When this change is made, your router will have both Ethernet and coax connected.  The coax port will continue to power your MoCA LAN, it just wont' be used for the MoCA WAN.

Hopefully this helps you make more sense of the information they provided you.

[zukdj]

I certainly don't have an issue running the cable, my modem is roughly 30 feet from the ONT, any suggestion on a type of cable (CAT5 or 6) and any weather resistance suggestions? So if I am understanding this correctly the coax will remain connected in the ONT and to the G1100 router. I will just drop in an additional Network cable from the ONT to the G1100 router? 

[gs0b]

Yup, it's that simple.  Just run an Ethernet cable from the ONT to the G1100 router.  The ONTs support up to gigabit speed, which is handled fine by CAT-5e.  CAT-6 works as well, but tends to cost more.  It doesn't provide any advantage as speeds faster than gigabit from an ONT are years away.

If your ONT is outside, you'll probably want to use an outdoor rated cable so the sun's UV rays don't deteriorate it over time.  Otherwise, use any cable you like.

And yes, the existing coax remains in place.  All you're doing is moving the WAN connection from MoCA to Ethernet.  The ONT's WAN MoCA port doesn't support speeds above 100Mbps, so the WAN needs to move to Ethernet for the faster speed tiers.  All of you LAN devices and TV channels remain on the coax.  No changes to them are needed.

After you install the Ethernet, contact Verizon to re-provision the ONT for Ethernet WAN.  Once that is done and the change propagates through all their systems, you can order speed upgrades online without triggering a tech visit.  The propagation may take a day or two.

Finally, strike the word "modem" from your vocabulary when talking about fios.  fios does not use modems.  It uses ONTs and routers.

[zukdj]

I don't recall using the word modem however if I did I stand corrected. I work in IT and know the difference but hey I am 60 years old so I could have mixed my words!😎 I wasn't aware how the MOCA network was handled because a FIOS "tech" that was working on a neighbors house told me that I could no longer use the coax connected to the ONT so I was unsure how TV was going to flow without coax. Another comment he made was coax MOCA is not as secure so I shouldn't be using it which perplexed me since all of FIOS equipment (routers and extenders) at least the ones I have use MOCA.

[Cang_Household]

Several comments on your situation:

The official tech support probably did not make clear that if you schedule a tech visit to pull an Ethernet cable from the ONT to your router, you will be charged a one-time $149 speed upgrade fee. It is cheaper ($0) to do it yourself. After you made the run, simply contact support via Social Media channels to switch from WAN Coax to Ethernet. It should take only a few minutes.

For your MoCA LAN, G1100's MoCA interface is capped at 500Mbps and could be an issue if you want gigabit service in the future. The Fios Extenders you have are also out-of-date. They work well with G1100, but not the newer routers G3100 due to their manufacturer has ceased to provide up-to-date compatible MoCA firmware.

Notwithstanding MoCA LAN, the coax from the ONT needs to be connected to your MoCA network regardless whether you have the Internet delivered over coax or Ethernet because Linear TV Signal still comes from the coax.

[gs0b]

The Verizon routers have TWO MoCA ports in them.  The share the same coax connection.  There is an internal splitter that connects to both ports.  They operate on different RF frequencies, so they can co-exist on the same coax.

On port is used for the LAN connection to the set-top-boxes, extenders and any MoCA gear you install.  The other is the WAN connection.  The ONT has a corresponding WAN MoCA port.  Using just coax from the ONT was a very common deployment method a decade ago, back when 100Mbps was the fastest speed they sold.

If you were internet only, no coax is needed from the ONT.  Just Ethernet.  TV customers need coax for the linear TV signals.

MoCA is secure, however you don't want to let it go out of your home.  This is a non-issue for fios customers.  Cable company customers have to place a filter on the coax line where it enters the home.  This filter blocks the MoCA signal from leaving the home.  While VZ techs are great at knowing how to install cables and equipment, they don't always know the deep technical details behind the systems.

[zukdj]

Quote - "For your MoCA LAN, G1100's MoCA interface is capped at 500Mbps and could be an issue if you want gigabit service in the future."

OK, so if I go with a gigabit connection now will the MOCA network that the extenders are on still work but be capped at 500Mbps? I assume it will since the TIVO's are on coax and get an IP address now so they should still receive an IP over the MOCA to run the cablecards and TV's, it just won't be gigabit? I have TIVO's hanging off the MOCA network and was told it wouldn't be an issue so last night I pulled the trigger on gigabit!

[Cang_Household]

I am assuming all of your extenders are also backhauled to the G1100 on MoCA. If this is the case, any device connected to the extenders will be capped at 500Mbps broadband throughput (speeds between extenders are still 1Gbps, only the speed between the G1100 and all extenders are 500Mbps, which is a critical point). If you would like to see gigabit speed from your G1100 to your extenders, you would need a Fios Network Adapter to bypass G1100's MoCA limitation.

[gs0b · Accepted solution]

Correct, anything on the G1100's MoCA LAN is limited to ~500Mbps.  For most users, this isn't really much of an issue as that's plenty fast.

The TiVO's will work fine, as even a 4K HDR stream is much, much less than 500Mbps.  They are about 25Mbps (*).

You'll find that while gigabit is really snappy and sounds great, there are few online services that can transmit data that fast.  Gigabit is helpful if frequently have a very large number of parallel streams.  Like well over 20 4K HDR streams.  Or if you routinely move very large files between your home and a dedicated server than can keep up.

I've gigabit, because it's part of an old triple play package and it would cost me MORE to slow down.  When my contract expires very soon, I may drop to 200/200 service (which is really 300/300) if I figure out a bundle that saves money.   I do move large files for work on occasion, and most go at around 200Mbps due to limitations of the servers and networks involved (not Verizon).  So, I'm not too concerned about the slower speed.

To get the best performance with gigabit, you should use Ethernet from the router.  You can use MoCA 2.5 devices in place of the router's built in MoCA to go faster, but regardless of which MoCA device you use know it introduces significant latency.  WiFi is very variable in speed and you'll need a WiFi-6 router and devices to see anything close to a gigabit.

Once you get gigabit up and running see if you really use it.  If not, you may want to drop back to 400/400 or 200/200 (really 300/300) and save some money.

(*) https://help.netflix.com/en/node/306