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FIOS TV cable card issues with Tivo and multi-room-viewing

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mga
Copper Contributor
Copper Contributor
Posts: 9
Registered: ‎10-06-2009

FIOS TV cable card issues with Tivo and multi-room-viewing

Message 1 of 14
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In the past 10 days or so, Verizon FiOS has changed something on their end that flags certain channels with content that should not be allowed to be recorded and then copied.  I have three TivoHD recorders in my house, each configured with a cable card issued by Verizon, and they are all networked together so Tivo's multi-room-viewing (MRV) feature can transfer a recording from one Tivo to another in my house.  But as stated before, Verizon changed something on their end around June 6th or 7th that now flags certain channels as being protected.

 

When this happens, Tivo honors the copy protection flag, and prevents the recordings from being shared between my Tivo units.  This sort of copy protection is usually limited to the premier channels such as HBO and SHOWTIME. But in the past 10 days this was turned on for many other channels, such as CNN, TOON, BRAVO.  Some ESPN channels now have this, but not other ESPN channels.  The random nature of this and the lack of protection on the HBO and SHOWTIME channels makes this appear to be an error on Verion's part.

 

Additional info on how Tivo honors the protection flags set at the service providers end.
http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/243  Its called the CCI Byte. 

 

There have been many other Tivo customers who are reporting this problem too. Apparently there was a wide spread cable-card problem around June 6th and 7th that may have accidently changed the copy-protection switches too. 

http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=450307

 

Any help is appreciated as my calls to the FIOS customer service haven't gotten anywhere.

 

13 REPLIES 13
prisaz
Platinum Contributor III
Platinum Contributor III
Posts: 6,820
Registered: ‎08-23-2008

Re: FIOS TV cable card issues with Tivo and multi-room-viewing

Message 2 of 14
(11,037 Views)

Should you expect Verizon to not wish to cripple a compeditors product on their service, and use DRM as an excuse? I think they should sign a deal with Tivo for product and development support and scrap all of their DVR stuff. But that is just me. They could hire more support personel. DTV went their own way and now have a Tivo option again, once they found out how much of a pain it is to support their own R&D. That would kill two birds with one stone. Bye-bye FYI and hello to a system that works. After all Tivo has been around for much longer.

 

I would love to see a Tivo with Verizon options like VOD, and widgets. They both have IP options and the merge would be great! I would Beta test it and actually enjoy it. Not like the VZ IP Video beta which I dropped like a ton of bricks. I honestly think Tivo would not let a product out to beta that did not work, locked up the whole box and required a cold boot. Well lets say a product like that should be alpha not beta.

mga
Copper Contributor
Copper Contributor
Posts: 9
Registered: ‎10-06-2009

Re: FIOS TV cable card issues with Tivo and multi-room-viewing

Message 3 of 14
(10,917 Views)

Hello, Verizon.  Can any of the employees on here comment on this change?

cwerdna
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 6
Registered: ‎06-22-2010

please fix this Verizon!

Message 4 of 14
(10,870 Views)

I'm upset too. I don't care about MRV since I only have 1 active TiVo in my household, however I DO archive some content to DVD +/-R into AVCHD format.  For that, I need to download it to my PC, which was all fine until we started getting this ridiculous copy protection that appeared on 6/8.  I planned to archive "The Pixar Story" that was on CNBCHD earlier today.  But no, I can't because of copy protection.  I've had no trouble archiving content from CNBC and CNBCHD in the past since none of our channels had CP.

 

Calls to VZ support have been useless.  I have to explain to them http://www.tivo.com/copyprotection/, CCI byte values, the net effect, etc. each time.  An email via the VZ web site has resulted in a useless "I will have to refer you to our FIOS repair department 1-888-553-1555 and we will be able to assist you with matter."  😞  Thanks for nothing.  I've already called, multiple times.

 

I'm one of the participants in a couple of the Tivocommunity threads on this.

 

http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7999925#post7999925 has helped confirmed that at least one person outside the areas being transitioned to Frontier still have no copy protection.

 

We need to get VZ's attention on this.  Get your local cable regulatory body involved.  If I had some more time, I'd like to pull the press into this too and get someone more notable than just http://hd.engadget.com/2010/06/19/fios-customers-moved-to-frontier-getting-copy-once-drm/.  Please help w/the cause.

 

Verizon, you listening?  You/Frontier are going to find a bunch of people dropping your service if this isn't resolved.

 

 

spacedebris
Gold Contributor V
Gold Contributor V
Posts: 1,692
Registered: ‎05-17-2009

Re: please fix this Verizon!

Message 5 of 14
(10,847 Views)
  1. This is a user to user board and has no official Verizon presence so you are not likely to get any Verizon response here
  2. Verizon will not support issues with the TIVO. They will simply tell you..."Do you get your picture? Yes? That is all we provide."
  3. Many of the protection systems are added either at the request of the channel or added in the broadcast by the channel itself. Verizon does not provide this info to the front line agents so they are not likely to know what you are even talking about.
  4. They will just refer you to Tivo.

 

 

 

Also I note that both of you are in WA. Verizon no longer has contol there. You are now Frontier. Verizon has no control over Frontier broadcast any longer. Your fight is with Frontier, not Verizon.




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mga
Copper Contributor
Copper Contributor
Posts: 9
Registered: ‎10-06-2009

Re: please fix this Verizon!

Message 6 of 14
(10,826 Views)

1) There are Verizon employees participating in these forums.  They clearly have Verizon and ""employee" tags on their profiles. 


Jim_Smith http://forums.verizon.com/t5/user/viewprofilepage/user-id/42341
Bill_Kula http://forums.verizon.com/t5/user/viewprofilepage/user-id/42367
Bobbi_Henson  http://forums.verizon.com/t5/user/viewprofilepage/user-id/42333
 
2) Verizon has the power to cripple our Tivo devices, as they have done so, knowingly or not.  They have the ability to fix the issue at hand. 
 
3) Exactly.  They should be added at the request of the channels.  But given what channels are now being protected, it is clear that this is Verizon's doing, and not the channels.  It is clear to me that Verizon/Frontier is doing this to make their DVR the better choice.  Very unfair business practice in my opinion. 
 
4) Yes, ignore the problem, lose customers.
 
Wrong.  Verizon still has control in Washington; next month it transfers to Frontier.  But this violates their agreements that nothing would change.  This is a change in our service.

KaLin
Khoros Partner
Khoros Partner
Posts: 2,739
Registered: ‎09-10-2008

Re: please fix this Verizon!

Message 7 of 14
(10,817 Views)

mga,

 

The three employees you referred to blog about Verizon Products and Services. in the various blogs.  They do not read the boards to solve customer issues, as this is a peer to peer support forum for users to help each other 


While a Verizon employee may occasionally post here, this community is meant mainly for peer-to-peer support.  The peer to peer text appears at the top of every board so there's no mistake that this is not a direct support channel to Verizon -- rather, a place to exchange suggestions and ideas among customers.  If you need to talk to a Verizon representative, you should contact customer service directly.

 

Regards,

If a forum member gives an answer you like, give them the Kudos they deserve. If a member gives you the answer to your question, mark the answer that solved your issue as the accepted solution.

spacedebris
Gold Contributor V
Gold Contributor V
Posts: 1,692
Registered: ‎05-17-2009

Re: please fix this Verizon!

Message 8 of 14
(10,802 Views)

@mga wrote:


Wrong.  Verizon still has control in Washington; next month it transfers to Frontier.  But this violates their agreements that nothing would change.  This is a change in our service.


Actually the change was done June 7. Its already in Frontiers hand. The wireline services will migrate on July 1 but the comunication holdings (which fios is part of) was done on June 7

 

 

Also you will find that the TIVO ability to transfer programs from box to box is not part of Verizon's or Frontiers service. Therefore nothing for "their" service has changed. Your having problems with a 3rd party device that is no longer compatible. Right or wrong you will find that the legal language in that agreement will exclude 3rd party devices such as Tivo. Will they loose customers because of this? Probably a few, there are always losses no matter what change is done. Will it be enough to make them change their mind? Probably not. They simply will not loose enough people.




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cwerdna
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 6
Registered: ‎06-22-2010

Re: please fix this Verizon!

Message 9 of 14
(10,661 Views)

 


@spacedebris wrote:
Actually the change was done June 7. Its already in Frontiers hand. The wireline services will migrate on July 1 but the comunication holdings (which fios is part of) was done on June 7

 

 

Also you will find that the TIVO ability to transfer programs from box to box is not part of Verizon's or Frontiers service. Therefore nothing for "their" service has changed. Your having problems with a 3rd party device that is no longer compatible. Right or wrong you will find that the legal language in that agreement will exclude 3rd party devices such as Tivo. Will they loose customers because of this? Probably a few, there are always losses no matter what change is done. Will it be enough to make them change their mind? Probably not. They simply will not loose enough people.


 

I don't think you get it.  TiVo is still compatible.  The problem is that they (VZ or Frontier) put on CCI byte values on a seemingly random set of channels (most of the ones above 100) that prevent both multi-room viewing AND transfering the content to PCs and Macs.  I believe TiVo has honor to these values in order to get CableLabs certification and to avoid legal action.

 

This seemed to coincide w/the outage that happend on 6/7 which I guess blew up in their face.  VZ/Frontier has done a very poor job first understanding the issue we're reporting and the message they're replying back with (don't know, we're working on it, mixed messages, finger pointing, "what can't you record?", etc.) and haven't said WHY.   I and others have had to explain to VZ reps in email and phone what these CCI byte values are, their net effect, etc.

 

It was a huge waste of time (>1.5) over 3 phone calls to get my service finally restored on 6/8 and then only a few days later, we discover this CP being applied.  It's been 2 weeks now and still no solid answer from them.  This is ineptitude.

 

For those affected, put the pressure on VZ/Frontier.  Call them.  Call TiVo to see if they can escalate (probably not too effective though).  Contact your local cable regulatory body.  I've done all three so far.  Another guy at http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=18814047#post18814047 drafted a great letter he's willing to let people poach.

spacedebris
Gold Contributor V
Gold Contributor V
Posts: 1,692
Registered: ‎05-17-2009

Re: please fix this Verizon!

Message 10 of 14
(10,628 Views)

Oh I do get it, believe me.

 

And I agree, I dont think they should be putting any kind of protection on. For that matter I believe in the free distribution of all information. I hate the protection put on DVD's and other media.

 

I'm just saying that Verizon/Frontier do not and will not consider 3rd party devices in their decision making. All Verizon/Frontier equipment are unaffected, therefore they will not take your complaints seriously. All they are required to do is provide Cable Cards to get the channels. The other features that the 3rd party device (Tivo's multiroom feature) are not of concern. They wouldnt even be providing cable cards if they were not required to by law. In fact if they can prevent Tivo's multiroom from working all the better, then if you want that feature you will have to get their box and feature and pay them for it. And if they want to add security to their broadcast for their own reasons, they can and will. Believe me I'm on your side. I'm just pointing out what kind of fight you will have. Its really a futil fight as this has been argued many time on many different kinds of services. And with the exception of the Sony DRM systems, it has always been ruled in favor of the provider.




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