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Fios DVR harddrive vs. Tivo HD

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Sabre70
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Re: Fios DVR harddrive vs. Tivo HD

Message 11 of 20
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One of the big reasons I switched to tivo was because I did not want to take any chances on HDMI handshake issues with my Sony Z series.  The fios boxes are still having issues all be it less than before but I wasnt about to take the chance.  I like you, got my tivo at a really good price and am in the near future going to buy a Premier so that I can have MRV.  Plus the tivo has a native setting for the pic setting that passes throught the signal at what it comes from the source at, no compression or altering.  As long as your tv can handle all formats youre all set.   I also had issues with the pc streaming with my 6416 box and my fiber optic output worked sporadically at best and I like to listen to music on my home theatre.   I'm happy with the switch to tivo to this point, really good pic quality and all the things I want to work actually work.

Hubrisnxs
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Re: Fios DVR harddrive vs. Tivo HD

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there are several differences, if you aren't a fancy dvr user that wants to add storage capacity, or transfer files from the DVR to your PC for added storage then there is little difference on the two that would justify switching to a tivo in my opinion.

 

That is the biggest advantage to me, the tivo allows you those advanced dvr functions, and depending on the type of user you are they can be big features.    For I'd say 80% of users, the verizon DVR is just fine, especially after the next couple software releases it will then suit 90% plus users needs.

 

 

Bwangster12
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Re: Fios DVR harddrive vs. Tivo HD

Message 13 of 20
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Pretty much the entire time I've had my Tivo HD I have not transferred any recordings to my PC.  I never use the software.  I also don't think I've had a space issue.  We might have anywhere from 5-10 things saved on my Tivo at a time and then we delete.  Most of the stuff I record is 30 mins to an hour and will be in HD, most of the stuff my fiancee records is an hour and is SD.

 

The things that really kills me about the Tivo is the speed of the menus.  I really find it WAY too slow.  They also never release updates, so it's not like its going to get better.  Atleast with Fios DVR, it sounds like they are releasing updates to make their DVR better.

sgip2000
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Re: Fios DVR harddrive vs. Tivo HD

Message 14 of 20
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The drives in a Tivo can easily be upgraded too.

prisaz
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Re: Fios DVR hard drive vs.. Tivo HD

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@Bwangster12 wrote:

So, let me see if I understand this correctly.

 

The Verizon Fios DVR (regular or the multiroom) does not have the ability to choose the quality of the recording you are making for a SD or HD recording.  With Tivo HD I know I have that option to record "best, better..." which would make sense that it would mean smaller file sizes and thefore chance at 180 hours of SD.  If I don't have that option of choose SD recording quality and the Fios DVR just recorded at it's standard quality, the file size is bigger therefore taking up more harddrive space?


 

 

Look at your Tivo again. Good, better, best is only for analog recordings, and does not apply to digital. The digital data stream is just recorded. Analog to digital allows you to select the quality based on the format stored regarding data compression. Fios sends the signal as received and does not compress it further than what may have been done by the source where it was created or received.

 

Capacity of some providers may be more for the same size drive based on the fact that they compress the signal to fit more channels. IE: Cable.

 

There are advantages regarding the use of Tivo and some disadvantages. You do not get any of the Verizon VOD, widgets, or guide, but you can get VOD from other sources. Netflix, Amazon, Blockbuster.... Also you can expand the storage on the Tivo, something the next generation of FIOS DVRs should have. I like the Tivo guide data much better than the Verizon guide data and format. But it is all up to user preference.

 

Drive space. I chose to replace the 160 gig drive in my Tivo with a terabyte drive for up to 142 hours of HD. $99 WD drive and $20 for the Tivo drive image software. I chose to use instant cake to upgrade my drive because the refurbished Tivo box drive crashed. Pay Tivo to fix it with the same size drive or do it yourself and get many more hours of storage. I chose the Do it yourself method. There are companies that will upgrade your Tivo drive for you, or you can just plug in an external drive if your Tivo drive is fine.

prisaz
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Re: Fios DVR harddrive vs. Tivo HD

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@spacedebris wrote:

The big difference is that the Verizon DVR records in an uncompress fashion. The Tivo has the ability to compress the recording to save space. This compression lowers the quality of the pic.

 

But the Tivo has the ability to expand the recording capibility. So you can get the Tivo DVR Expander, and get more recording space.

 

The only drawback to the Tivo is that you loose the Verizon widgets and VOD. Plus you have to also pay for Tivo service. Small prices to pay for some.


 

Tivo does not have the ability to compress the digital data. TIVO HD or HDX. Perhaps the newer versions, but what Tivo tells you in the menu is "These setting do not apply to digital". That is what my box says. Digital is digital. It is the A/D that allows the quality of recording adjustment for compression and bit rate that is stored. Most everything being digital now, those settings are obsolete on the TIVO HD and HDX DVRs

 

KenAF
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Re: Fios DVR harddrive vs. Tivo HD

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@spacedebris wrote:

The big difference is that the Verizon DVR records in an uncompress fashion. The Tivo has the ability to compress the recording to save space. This compression lowers the quality of the pic.


As indicated above, the compression option only applies to analog channels.  The TiVo HD and Premiere save digital channels to disk as is, like the FiOS DVR.  They don't have the ability to do otherwise.

 


@Hubrisnxs wrote:

there are several differences, if you aren't a fancy dvr user that wants to add storage capacity, or transfer files from the DVR to your PC for added storage then there is little difference on the two that would justify switching to a tivo in my opinion.

 

That is the biggest advantage to me, the tivo allows you those advanced dvr functions, and depending on the type of user you are they can be big features.    For I'd say 80% of users, the verizon DVR is just fine, especially after the next couple software releases it will then suit 90% plus users needs.


As you are probably well aware, one of these "advanced DVR functions" is the ability to create custom series recordings that record by something other than series title.

 

My 2TB TiVoHD has 300+ HD hours and custom series recordings for:

 

  • new series pilots
  • all new Washington Redskins games
  • all new Washington Capitals games
  • all new Washington Nationals games
  • all new University of Maryland football & basketball games
  • all new NCAA tournament basketball (Sweet 16, Elite 8, Final 4, Final only)
  • all new NBA Finals games
  • all new NHL Stanley Cup playoff games
  • all new ALCS, NLCS, and World Series games
  • all new bowl games (BCS Championship, Rose Bowl, Orange Bowl, Sugar Bowl, etc)
  • all new golf majors (The Masters, Open Championship, PGA Championship, US Open)
  • all new Grand Slam tennis  (Australian Open, French Open, U.S. Open, Wimbledon)
  • all new major award shows (Academy Awards, Golden Globes, Grammy Awards, Emmy Awards)
  • all new presidential debates
  • all new 2010 HD movies

Each of the above consists of a single recording in series manager.  A single recording for each records all of those events each and every year, regardless of time, time, and channel --- and stores them all in their own customizable folder -- without me having to do anything else.    There's no maintenance; there's never a need to search or check the guide for these programs.   Like any series recording, they are all prioritized in series manager so they only record when they don't conflict with my favorite shows.

 

Instructions here for new TiVo users.

 


@Bwangster12 wrote:

Pretty much the entire time I've had my Tivo HD I have not transferred any recordings to my PC.  I never use the software.  I also don't think I've had a space issue.  We might have anywhere from 5-10 things saved on my Tivo at a time and then we delete.  Most of the stuff I record is 30 mins to an hour and will be in HD, most of the stuff my fiancee records is an hour and is SD.


Transfers were pretty slow on the TiVoHD.  They are much faster on the Premiere.


If that is all you record then you clearly aren't a heavy DVR user.   In addition to the above, I record:

 

24

Burn Notice

Breaking Bad

Brotherhood

Californication

Chuck

Daily Show w/ Jon Stewart (watch periodically)

Damages
Dark Blue

Dexter

Entourage

Flash Forward

Fringe

The Good Wife

Human Target

Hung

House

Justified
Lost

Mad Men

The Mentalist

Modern Marvels 

Nurse Jackie

Psych
Spartacus

The Situation Room with Wolf Blitzter (watch periodically)

The Tudors

V

Washington Post Live (watch periodically)

Weeds

 

I record everything in HD.  Over 95% of what I watch is either recorded or timeshifted (i.e. on a delay).   I probably see less than two minutes worth of commercials per month.

 

My typical day in front of the tube consists of: 30 minutes of news and/or sports news programs, 60 minutes of series programs (i.e. 40-45 minutes w/o commercials), and 15-30 minutes of fast forwarding through the night's Caps and Nationals games to see the highlights and post-game interviews/summaries.

 

I don't have anywhere near the time to watch every show the week it airs, hence the importance of the extra storage.  With 2TB capacity (300+ HD hours), I have enough storage to save every episode of every show through the end of the season.  That allows me to watch some series the week the air, and save the rest for the ~5 months during the year when the "big four" networks don't offer new episodes.  While others are stuck without much to watch or record, I still have complete seasons of my favorite series to watch in HD.

 


@Bwangster12 wrote:
They also never release updates, so it's not like its going to get better.  Atleast with Fios DVR, it sounds like they are releasing updates to make their DVR better.

Changes to the TivoHD since release in include:

  • revamped wishlist functionality (see wishlist tips)
  • support for eSATA expansion
  • support for multiroom viewing
  • ability to download recordings from DVR to computer
  • ability to transfer recordings from computer to DVR
  • improved manual recording screen
  • improved menu and guide responsiveness
  • significantly improved MRV performance
  • single-click delete individual recordings and folders with CLEAR button
  • single-click play individual recordings and entire folders with PLAY (>) button
  • jump to top/bottom of menus with -->|
  • browse the guide while watching recorded programs
  • advance 1.5 hrs at a time in the guide with FF (>>) and REW (<<) buttons.
  • advance a day at a time in the guide with replay and skip buttons
  • toggle closed captions on/off from channel banner, without entering menus
    • on liveTV, press right arrow (or INFO) -> down -> down -> down -> down -> SELECT
    • on recordings, press right arrow (or INFO) -> down -> down -> SELECT
  • watch Amazon Unbox as it downloads
  • Crestron integration and remote control via tcp/ip
  • native support for MPEG-4 and VC1
  • support for Netflix SD/HD streaming
  • swivel search, recently replaced with the 16:9 TiVo Search (broadband users only)
  • occasional ad banner on TiVo menu and end-of-playback delete prompt (yuck)
  • pause menu (yuck)

Just last week, TiVo released an update for the TiVoHD (11.0g) to eliminate some outstanding issues.

 

I suspect what you mean is that TiVo hasn't added any new DVR features to the TivoHD in the past 18 months.   That is certainly true.  Clearly TiVo's efforts now are focused on the Premiere, which features about three times the CPU and graphics performance of the TiVoHD.

 

Youtube: TiVo Premiere's My Shows menu (be sure to click HD)

Youtube: TiVo Premiere's Search menu (be sure to click HD)

Youtube: Downloading recorded files on Premiere v. TiVoHD (be sure to click HD)

 

The TivoHD will never get the Premiere's new HD UI -- like current FiOS DVRs, it's processor isn't powerful enough to support a compelling HD interface -- but TiVo did say that it should get some of the other enhancements on the Premiere.  Such enhancements include new "press-and-hold" trickplay functions and USB keyboard (including wireless keyboard) support.

 

You can read more about these non-interface DVR enhancements and tweaks in this technical review.

 

One obvious advantage of the FiOS DVR is the ability to swap it for a new model.  TiVo HD users will never get TiVo's new HD interface, whereas those with the Motorola QIP6416 and QIP7216 should be able to swap out their old DVR for new Motorola or Cisco DVRs with a HD interface when available.

 


@Bwangster12 wrote:
The things that really kills me about the Tivo is the speed of the menus.  I really find it WAY too slow.

The TiVo Premiere has significantly faster "classic" SD menus if that really bothers you, though its new HD UI is too buggy and slow to use at this time.  TiVo lets you pick the UI you want to use on the Premiere.

 

If you don't like hitting the TiVo button twice to reach the NPL, you can buy a TiVo remote with a button to take you directly to the recorded list.  Many universal remotes (ex: Harmonys) also support the LIST function to directly display the TiVo's recorded list.

 

There are also navigation shortcuts to most TiVos menus; for example, pressing '2' from the TiVo menu takes you directly to the To Do List.  There are similar shortcuts for every other TiVo menu.   If you have a Harmony remote, you can create macros for these shortcuts and put them on the LCD, as below:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


@prisaz wrote:

 

Also you can expand the storage on the Tivo, something the next generation of FIOS DVRs should have. I like the Tivo guide data much better than the Verizon guide data and format. But it is all up to user preference.

 


I prefer Verizon's SD EPG interface to TiVo's SD EPG interface.   That said, I don't think there is any question about the guide data itself.  TiVo still offers superior guide data at this time.  All DVR recording is based on the guide data, so that directly impacts reliability.

 

We've heard for a year now that Verizon plans to switch guide data providers.  When that happens, program information should be more comparable, but until it does, the FiOS DVR will never be as reliable as a TiVo.


The TiVo Premiere is expected to offer a new 16:9 HD EPG with more information and a number of other long-awaited enhancements, but it isn't available yet.  TiVo is rolling out the new HD UI a few pieces at a time, and the new high-definition program guide wasn't ready at release.  TiVo had the Premiere sitting in warehouses since December and management decided that it couldn't delay release any further to wait for the new UI's completion.

 

Verizon should offer a new HD UI with a 16:9 EPG in the next year, but it probably won't be on existing boxes.  FiOS customers should be able to swap out the current box for the new one when it becomes available.

 


@prisaz wrote:

 

Drive space. I chose to replace the 160 gig drive in my Tivo with a terabyte drive for up to 142 hours of HD. $99 WD drive and $20 for the Tivo drive image software. I chose to use instant cake to upgrade my drive because the refurbished Tivo box drive crashed. Pay Tivo to fix it with the same size drive or do it yourself and get many more hours of storage. I chose the Do it yourself method.


FYI, it is now possible to upgrade the TivoHD with a 2TB internal hard drive (300+ HD hours).  This isn't widely discussed on the TiVoCommunity forums because it requires a modified copy of the TiVo software.  The modified software adds the changes made for the TivoHD XL to the Tivo HD.

 

You can pm someone in this thread to get it.

 

If you are the original poster (OP) and your issue is solved, please remember to click the "Solution?" button so that others can more easily find it.
Bwangster12
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Re: Fios DVR harddrive vs. Tivo HD

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The thing is, I got my Tivo for an extremely low price.  Got it for 50 bucks in a Sears, with no cables or remote, but brand new.  Would I have laid out $200+ at the time for it?  Wouldn't have been as easy for me.  After having it for 6ish months, I have begun to realize that "recording the show" is my main concern.  I don't think I've come close to filling the thing, I NEVER utilize the Amazon VOD or any of the other VOD, nor do I really dig into the Youtube videos or other videos.  My daily usage is setting recordings, watching recordings and the semi-occassional Netflix movie (which I now can do on my Wii).

 

I'm at the point where I can get a cablecard through Verizon for 3.99 or just get the multi-room DVR.  I don't look at laying out 300 to 400, w/e it costs to get a new Tivo Premiere.  I like flexibility to stop paying for something month after month if I want.  I look at it this way.

 

1) Keep Tivo HD

- pay $12.75, plus $3.99 for cable card = $16.74 a month

- What I feel is very slow menus

- Absolutely no new features in the future

- Now that Tivo Premiere is out, less and less updates will be provided

- No usage of the Fios Widgets, cool looking Fios menus, or Fios caller ID

 

2) Give Tivo HD to parents

- Pay $19.99 a month for mutli-room DVR

- Gain functionality to remotely watch recordings on any STB in my house

- From what it sounds like, get much faster menus when using interface.  This is a big deal to me.  The Tivo can be annoying slow at times making it no fun to use.

- Fios seems to be actively updating their software and continuing to release new features and bug fixes

- Sounds like if/when new hardware is released, Verizon will allow customers to upgrade

KenAF
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Registered: ‎10-22-2008

Re: Fios DVR harddrive vs. Tivo HD

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@Bwangster12 wrote:

My daily usage is setting recordings, watching recordings and the semi-occassional Netflix movie


Have you setup wishlists for your favorite events?

 


@Bwangster12 wrote:

 

1) Keep Tivo HD

- pay $12.75, plus $3.99 for cable card = $16.74 a month

- What I feel is very slow menus

- Absolutely no new features in the future

- Now that Tivo Premiere is out, less and less updates will be provided

- No usage of the Fios Widgets, cool looking Fios menus, or Fios caller ID


You won't get "much faster menus" on the existing Verizon boxes.  The Verizon program guide is noticeably faster, but the rest of the menus are comparable.    The TivoHD and Verizon's QIP7216 use the same processor and have the same memory, so the same basic limitations apply.

 

I'm not sure where you heard that no new features are planned for the future. TiVo's Margret Schmidt, TiVo's VP of User Experience, posted this:

Quote:
Updates won't stop for S3 [and TivoHD], but they will be different from what S4 gets due to capabilities of the platform.

 

TiVo told members of the press that existing DVRs would receive non-HDUI enhancements seen on the Premiere. Such improvements include:

 

Quote:

30 second scan


On past TiVos, the ADVANCE (-->|) button toggled between the beginning and end of the program by default. If the user wanted that button to perform 30 second skip—a popular feature to skip commercials—they had to enter a special remote sequence: SELECT-PLAY-SELECT-3-0-SELECT.


The TiVo Premiere ships with a new 30 second “scan” function enabled by default on the ADVANCE (-->|) button. This feature is very similar to the 30 second "slip" on DirecTV's latest DVRs. It doesn't skip 30 seconds; instead, it fast forwards through a 30 second interval in one second (i.e. 30x speed). Pressing ADVANCE repeatedly queues added time. Four presses of the ADVANCE button fast forwards through 120 seconds of programming (or commercials) in four seconds.


The traditional 30 second instant skip function remains is still available, and enabled with the same remote sequence. Simply enter SELECT-PLAY-SELECT-3-0-SELECT while viewing a recorded program.

 

Trick play enhancements: Jump to beginning/end and skip-to-tick on live TV

 

With the Premiere, pressing and holding the REPLAY button for one second jumps to the beginning of the recording or the beginning of the live TV buffer. Pressing and holding the ADVANCE button for one second jumps to the end of the recording or the end of the live TV buffer (i.e. live TV).


Users can also jump forward or backward in 15 minute increments on live TV and recordings. When rewinding, each press of the REPLAY button jumps backward in 15 minute increments. When fast forwarding, each press of the ADVANCE button jumps forward in 15 minute increments.


USB keyboard support; support for upcoming keyboard remote


The Premiere supports both wired and wireless USB keyboards. The implementation conforms to the USB HID specification, which TiVo will use to support its upcoming Bluetooth keyboard remote. Alphanumeric keys function in both the HD and classic menus, while the ENTER, cursor, and F1-F11 keys perform various TiVo remote functions.


Improved handling of delete notifications; increase in default “keep until” period


Under past versions of the TiVo software, new recordings were protected from deletion for 48 hours, and icons were used to indicate the amount of time a recording was protected. No icon meant the recording was protected for at least 24 hours; a yellow ball meant the recording was protected for less than 24 hours; and a yellow ball with an exclamation point meant the recording was no longer protected and the DVR would delete the recording when space was needed for a new one. It didn’t matter how much space was available; every recording older than 48 hours was labeled as “may be deleted.”


The TiVo Premiere protects all new recordings from deletion for 72 hours, but does a much better job of reporting when the DVR will delete older recordings. It no longer labels every recording as “may be deleted” simply because it is 48 or 72 hours old. Instead, it calculates the disk space requirements for scheduled recordings to report what recordings the DVR will delete and when. It only flags recordings as “will be deleted” when recording space runs low, or when an upcoming episode will replace an older one, as per the user’s own series setting for “keep last X episodes.”


Support for full 1080p24 output


@THE TiVo Premiere adds the ability to output 1080p24 without conversion to 1080i. The first beneficiary of this new capability is Amazon, which already encodes all of its high-definition VOD content in 1080p24 @ 5 Mbps. Those with compatible TVs will see 1080p output on Amazon HD.  In the future, more services such as Netflix may be available in 1080p.   Full 1080p24 output is also useful for playback of most 1080p PC video files.


Simplified video output selections, auto-detection of supported formats

 

The TiVo Premiere simplifies setup with a new automatic output feature that selects the highest-resolution supported by the TV. For those that want to change the default display settings, the Premiere also adds a new menu to assist in determining supported formats.


TiVo replaced its separate native, hybrid, and fixed output modes with more intuitive selections. The Premiere lists each output format – 1080p24, 1080i, 720p, 480p, and 480i—and asks the user to select those they wish to output without processing. If all formats are selected, then all are output natively. If only 1080i is selected, then all formats are converted to 1080i. If 480i and 720p are selected, then SD channels are output as is, while all HD formats are converted to 720p. If 720p and 1080i are selected, then all HD is output in its original form, while SD is converted to 1080i.


New channel logos in recorded list


With the Premiere, TiVo added channel logos for a number of new HD channels.


Increased menu timeout


Under previous versions of the TiVo software, the DVR would revert to live TV after five minutes of user inactivity on any menu. With the Premiere, TiVo increased that timeout to 15 minutes.

 

Software support for >1TB hard drives


Past high-definition TiVos were limited to 1TB of external storage and 2TB of total storage by an older IDE driver.    The TiVo Premiere uses a new version of Linux with a new SATA driver that supports much larger drives, including 2+TB internal and external drives.   There is no 2TB version of the My DVR Expander available yet, but that is something the box can support.

The existing boxes won't get the new HD interface, but they should receive most of the enhancements noted above.  The upcoming Bluetooth keyboard remote will work with existing HD TiVos.

New TiVo remote


@Bwangster12 wrote:

 

2) Give Tivo HD to parents

- Pay $19.99 a month for mutli-room DVR

- Gain functionality to remotely watch recordings on any STB in my house

- Fios seems to be actively updating their software and continuing to release new features and bug fixes

- Sounds like if/when new hardware is released, Verizon will allow customers to upgrade


If you expect to have one or more $9.99/mo HD STBs on other TVs, then multi-room is a major advantage of the FiOS DVR.   TiVo's multi-room implementation is inferior, as it relies on transfers and only works with other TiVo DVRs.

 

The main limitation of the FiOS multi-room DVR is the limited storage.  It is not easy to support multiple family members with only 20 HD hours of total capacity.    That may not be an issue for you, since it doesn't sound like you record or watch much TV.   For families that do watch more than a few programs every week, the new QIP7232 with 40 HD hours of capacity -- expected late this year -- will definitely help.

 

Excluding widgets, Verizon hasn't really added new features at a faster pace than TiVo.   Both released the same number of updates this year.   And do realize that Verizon is playing catchup.  Most of the "features" added to Verizon DVRs in the past few years have been available on TiVo for 5+ years.  Verizon DVRs still don't allow users to save search results or record all games with their favorite sports teams.  Nor do they let users download recordings from the DVR to their computer, or add an external hard drive to increase storage.  Those are all features TiVo added in recent years, and features that FiOS DVR users are still waiting for Verizon to add.   I expect TiVo to add more features to its older DVRs than Verizon this year, not less.


The ability to swap hardware is a real advantage of the Verizon DVR.  Verizon doesn't release significant new hardware very often -- maybe once every 4-5 years -- but when it is available, there should be no cost to switch it out for the new.   Verizon's upcoming QIP7232 boxes are capable of supporting a new HD interface, something you will never see on the older TiVoHD hardware.  In fact, the QIP7232 hardware should be fairly comparable to the TiVo Premiere, minus the OTA tuners.

 

Arguably the biggest advantage of the FiOS DVR is one you didn't mention -- access to free FiOS VOD.  Customers with HBO, SHO, or Starz have access to premium content that is not always available for immediate recording.

If you are the original poster (OP) and your issue is solved, please remember to click the "Solution?" button so that others can more easily find it.
Sabre70
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Re: Fios DVR harddrive vs. Tivo HD

Message 20 of 20
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Each dvr has advantages and disadvantages.  I dont use the widgets or need caller ID on my tv, chances are pretty good I'm not getting up to answer the phone when Im watching something anyways.  As KenAF said the menu speed is similar, I don't know how fast you want them to be but I think the  tivo menu is fast enough.  I still would worry about handshke with HDMI on the fios boxes.  I notice and improved picture on the tivo vs the fios box also, slight as it may be.  Moxi is also an option.  Seems to me the reason fios has to always update software is becaus ethey are always chasing a bug or a fix.

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