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Need technical information on FiOS installation

Need technical information on FiOS installation

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Copper Contributor edcb
Copper Contributor
Posts: 5
Registered: ‎02-06-2015
Message 1 of 13
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I'm writing in this forum in hope that a Verizon moderator can provide assistance.  Not to denigrate comments from others, but I've attempting to obtain these details from Verizon for a while...

 

I would very much like to subscribe to FiOS, but I have a few pre-installation issues to be resolved BEFORE I can 'sign-up'.  I 've contacted Verizon telephone technical support a couple of times and didn't receive adequate answers.  Nothing personal, but the Verizon associates simply do not have access to the information.

 

Our home is served by underground utilities.  Our existing copper POTS line is contained in a 1" inside diameter polyethylene (flexible) pipe from the curb box to the side of our house.  The existing NID is on the outside of the house.  I would estimate about 50' of conduit/cable.

 

Additional background and facts:

 

I'm an electrical/computer engineer for a major network equipment provider.  And I'm VERY particular (i.e. fussy) about any 'stuff' installed in the house.  POTS telephone is simple.  TV Cable is simple.  FiOS goes a step beyond and to provide it's converged Data/TV/Voice services it need to have a significant on-premises 'footprint'.  Much more than POTS, Cable, etc.  And I'm working to have it installed 'correctly', (in my opinion).  But I'm finding that Verizon doesn't have a good handle on the premises side.

 

For example, I have an equipment closet for telephone, network, secsys, etc.  I have a space available for the FiOS h/w., but I need answers as to the dimensions of the ONT, BBU, etc. and any required clearances.  So far my only answer is 'ask the installers'....  Not good.  Verizon must know this information..

 

For security consideration, I need to have the ONT installed in this equipment closet.  Or if it won't fit in the closet,  I need to accommodate the installation.  And it would be mounted somewhere in a finished room.

 

OK, next point.  For protection and security I need to have the fiber cable OUTSIDE of the house enclosed in a metal conduit.  Perhaps this is overkill, but while I'm having the fiber installed I'd prefer to protect it...  BUT, I can't find information regarding the minimum conduit size.  The underground 'conduit' is about a one inch inside diameter.  Do I need the same for the entrance in to the house?  I'd prefer to only make the hole through the house as large as necessary.  I read that the fiber 'drop cables' are pre-terminated.  What it the size of the connector?  But I also read about splicing the drop cable.   That might be necessary for my 50' of underground run.  In which case I could have a smaller (3/4" ID) conduit into the house.  I'm also planning to install a conduit from the 'house penetration' over to my equipment closet.  This should make it VERY easy for the installer.  (I'm trying to buy some points with the installer).

 

I can work with the installer for any inside the house wiring issues.  I already have RG59 or RG6 runs to the television locations.  I also have CAT5e throughout the house.  I think I need to use the FiOS router to provide the bridge between the UTP and MoCA networks.  That's OK.  But mounting a WiFi router in my equipment closet isn't great.  I'd need to locate the device closer to the center of the house and not in a corner of the basement.  But I can work the installer on these issues.  I'll probably need to run an RG6 to my current WiFi access-point location for the FiOS router.

 

Any thoughts?  Answers?  Anyone from Verizon that can help?  I'd place the order very soon if I can resolve my questions.

 

Thanks,

EdCB

 

 

 

 

12 REPLIES 12
Moderator Emeritus Moderator Emeritus
Moderator Emeritus
Posts: 6,232
Registered: ‎04-29-2009
Message 2 of 13
(4,402 Views)

This is a peer to peer support forum. Verizon does not monitor it for questions about services or products.You would need to contact Verizon directly.

Gold Contributor V Gold Contributor V
Gold Contributor V
Posts: 1,340
Registered: ‎12-02-2012
Message 3 of 13
(4,398 Views)

There are a bunch of knowledgeable folks here who can answer a lot of your questions.  If you'd like answers from other users, just say so.

 

Enjoy.

 

-----
If a forum member gives an answer you like, give them the Kudos they deserve. If a member gives you the answer to your question, mark the answer as Accepted Solution so others can see the solution to the problem.
Copper Contributor edcb
Copper Contributor
Posts: 5
Registered: ‎02-06-2015
Message 4 of 13
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YES. All answers and data are greatly appreciated.. I didn't mean to exclude anyone.... Just asking for Verizon help if it exists. Thanks.
Gold Contributor V Gold Contributor V
Gold Contributor V
Posts: 1,340
Registered: ‎12-02-2012
Message 5 of 13
(4,388 Views)

First of all, you should get FiOS.  You'll love it.  With that out of the way, here is some information to help.

 

Generally speaking, Verizon doesn't know what specific equipment they will install in your home until the tech shows up.  They have several different models of ONT and it basically boils down to what is in the warehouse when the tech loads the truck.

 

Depending on where you live and the speed grade you order, you may get a BPON ONT or a GPON ONT.  150Mbps and higher needs a GPON ONT.

 

The Tellabs ONT612 is a very popular BPON ONT.  I've got one in my home.

 

This ONT requires a separate BBU and power supply.  The indoor version includes all three units in one case.  The outdoor version keeps all three as separate items so they can be installed in different locations.  The outdoor ONT is is about 1.5 feet square and sticks out about four inches (this includes a fiber slack manager mounted behind the ONT).  The accompanying BBU is a bit thicker.  I've got an outdoor ONT installed inside, as that's what the tech had on the truck that day.

 

There are desktop ONTs that are used in apartment installs and other models besides the Tellabs 612.

 

You can read about the different types of ONTs here:

http://www.dslreports.com/faq/16637

 

Sizes are documented here:

http://www.dslreports.com/faq/13627

 

There are a bunch of other threads on this forum about ONT size, just search for them.  Lots of good info at dslreprots.com as well.

 

If you have a two foot by three foot area on the wall in your wiring closet, you should be fine.

 

When I had FiOS installed, I think the installer drilled a 1.5" or 2" hole through the wall to accommodate the fiber termination.

 

The typical process is a fiber drop installer shows up a week or so before the premise install.  This is when the drop fiber will be run from the tap to your home.  The slack will be left in coil next to the home where either an outside ONT would be mounted or where the fiber enters the building.  For underground installs, they typically use a device like the Line Layer(*) to slice the ground and insert the fiber.  They usually don't schedule when the drop line will be installed, as the work is all outdoors and does not require you to be home.

 

To get them to use your conduit will require you to see if you can get them to schedule the drop install and then you'd have to talk to the tech to get them to use your conduit.  It may actually be harder for them to use your conduit vs. using the Line Layer, as they don't typically do that and may not have the tools for it.  And, the fiber they use is designed for direct burial.  I'm not sure a conduit has any advantages; a backhoe will destroy conduit just as easily as the fiber.  The buried fiber does have a parallel ground wire that enables underground detection equipment to find it.  It is bonded to ground outside the home and at the drop connection.

 

The FiOS drop location may not be anywhere near where your POTs connection is located.  Look around and you should be able to find it.  If you insist on conduit, you'll need to install new conduit if the FiOS drop isn't near the POTs connection.  I also suspect that a 1" conduit is too small for the fiber connector.

 

On the official install day, the technician will connect both ends of the drop cable (drop & ONT).

 

For speeds at or below 75Mbps, the ONT WAN connections to the router can be over coax (MoCA) or Ethernet.  For faster speeds, Ethernet must be used.  If you use MoCA, you can place the router anywhere it has access to a coax tap connected to the ONT.  This can be behind several splitters.  Of course, Ethernet WAN is installed just like any other Ethernet connection.  You'd simply need an Ethernet cable link between the ONT location and the router's location.

 

If you have FiOS TV with Verizon set-top-boxes, the router needs to be connected to coax to create a MoCA LAN.  This means the router must have a coax connection, even if Ethernet is used for the WAN.  Any location that has both Ethernet and coax can be used.  Hopefully this gives you enough information to figure where you can place the router.

 

 

(*) http://www.lineward.com/the-l2-line-layer/

-----
If a forum member gives an answer you like, give them the Kudos they deserve. If a member gives you the answer to your question, mark the answer as Accepted Solution so others can see the solution to the problem.
Gold Contributor V Gold Contributor V
Gold Contributor V
Posts: 1,340
Registered: ‎12-02-2012
Message 6 of 13
(4,370 Views)

Here's a thread on dslreports.com that you'll find helpful:

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r29767684-Size-of-typical-FiOS-residential-installation-

 

You'll find pictures of my install there.

 

My ONT is about 14" on a side and about 4.5" deep.

 

Good Luck!

 

 

-----
If a forum member gives an answer you like, give them the Kudos they deserve. If a member gives you the answer to your question, mark the answer as Accepted Solution so others can see the solution to the problem.
Gold Contributor VII Gold Contributor VII
Gold Contributor VII
Posts: 1,796
Registered: ‎08-06-2008
Message 7 of 13
(4,350 Views)

@gs0b wrote:

Here's a thread on dslreports.com that you'll find helpful:

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r29767684-Size-of-typical-FiOS-residential-installation-

 

You'll find pictures of my install there.

 

My ONT is about 14" on a side and about 4.5" deep.

 

Good Luck!

 

 


I just looked at your photo of your ont and the bbu and psu should have been replaced to a current model. Call Verizon and get them to change both units.

Gold Contributor VII Gold Contributor VII
Gold Contributor VII
Posts: 1,796
Registered: ‎08-06-2008
Message 8 of 13
(4,348 Views)

@edcb wrote:

I'm writing in this forum in hope that a Verizon moderator can provide assistance.  Not to denigrate comments from others, but I've attempting to obtain these details from Verizon for a while...

 

I would very much like to subscribe to FiOS, but I have a few pre-installation issues to be resolved BEFORE I can 'sign-up'.  I 've contacted Verizon telephone technical support a couple of times and didn't receive adequate answers.  Nothing personal, but the Verizon associates simply do not have access to the information.

 

Our home is served by underground utilities.  Our existing copper POTS line is contained in a 1" inside diameter polyethylene (flexible) pipe from the curb box to the side of our house.  The existing NID is on the outside of the house.  I would estimate about 50' of conduit/cable.

 

Additional background and facts:

 

I'm an electrical/computer engineer for a major network equipment provider.  And I'm VERY particular (i.e. fussy) about any 'stuff' installed in the house.  POTS telephone is simple.  TV Cable is simple.  FiOS goes a step beyond and to provide it's converged Data/TV/Voice services it need to have a significant on-premises 'footprint'.  Much more than POTS, Cable, etc.  And I'm working to have it installed 'correctly', (in my opinion).  But I'm finding that Verizon doesn't have a good handle on the premises side.

 

For example, I have an equipment closet for telephone, network, secsys, etc.  I have a space available for the FiOS h/w., but I need answers as to the dimensions of the ONT, BBU, etc. and any required clearances.  So far my only answer is 'ask the installers'....  Not good.  Verizon must know this information..

 

For security consideration, I need to have the ONT installed in this equipment closet.  Or if it won't fit in the closet,  I need to accommodate the installation.  And it would be mounted somewhere in a finished room.

 

OK, next point.  For protection and security I need to have the fiber cable OUTSIDE of the house enclosed in a metal conduit.  Perhaps this is overkill, but while I'm having the fiber installed I'd prefer to protect it...  BUT, I can't find information regarding the minimum conduit size.  The underground 'conduit' is about a one inch inside diameter.  Do I need the same for the entrance in to the house?  I'd prefer to only make the hole through the house as large as necessary.  I read that the fiber 'drop cables' are pre-terminated.  What it the size of the connector?  But I also read about splicing the drop cable.   That might be necessary for my 50' of underground run.  In which case I could have a smaller (3/4" ID) conduit into the house.  I'm also planning to install a conduit from the 'house penetration' over to my equipment closet.  This should make it VERY easy for the installer.  (I'm trying to buy some points with the installer).

 

I can work with the installer for any inside the house wiring issues.  I already have RG59 or RG6 runs to the television locations.  I also have CAT5e throughout the house.  I think I need to use the FiOS router to provide the bridge between the UTP and MoCA networks.  That's OK.  But mounting a WiFi router in my equipment closet isn't great.  I'd need to locate the device closer to the center of the house and not in a corner of the basement.  But I can work the installer on these issues.  I'll probably need to run an RG6 to my current WiFi access-point location for the FiOS router.

 

Any thoughts?  Answers?  Anyone from Verizon that can help?  I'd place the order very soon if I can resolve my questions.

 

Thanks,

EdCB

 

 

 

 


If you have room for a 2 x 3 foot board within 6 feet of an electrical outlet you are good on the inside. Now for the outside. If Verizon uses a hybrid drop it will fit in a 1 inch conduit. If they uses a regular drop I would install a 2 inch conduit and make sure that sweeps are used at the bends. A drag in the conduit is also useful.

Copper Contributor edcb
Copper Contributor
Posts: 5
Registered: ‎02-06-2015
Message 9 of 13
(4,289 Views)

THANKS for all of the great information...  I'm still digesting it, but a few comments/question:

 

What is a 'hybrid drop' ?  And why does would it fit in a one inch conduit?  Is the termination/connection smaller?  Multiple pieces?  I like this solution as is would require a smaller conduit.   A 2" conduit into the side of the house for a single fiber run seems to be a bit excessive.  A 1" sounds good.  But I doubt that they could pull even this smaller termination through the existing 1" ID underground conduit..   But they might for ease.

 

The fiber 'junction box' is adjacent to our current copper 'junction box' buried in the front yard.  So they could reuse the existing PE conduit..   I'll need to ping Verizon on that one.

 

But whether or not they  use the existing conduit, I could still supply a conduit (probably PVC) down to ground to protect the fiber run.  Maybe I'm paranoid, but it's too easy for a 'bad guy' to cut an exposed cable (either copper or fiber).  So I'm looking to the conduit.  A 1-1/2 conduit might be the best answer and push Verizon toward the 'hybrid drop' cable/termination.

 

As for the interior equipment, I don't have an clear 2'x3' space in my wiring closet.  I do have a few spaces, so the separate ONT, BBU, PS would be the best..   I'm still looking at the dslreports stuff, but the smaller of the ONT's might fit in my space.  Otherwise I need to devise another solution.  The room that this is in is corrently filled with 'stuff' and the wiring closet is the best place for the h/w....   Otherwise I'd need to take over a current pantry area and spin-up a discussion with my wife...... 

 

I still have additional reading of your EXCELLENT reply messages....  Thanks again.

 

I'll be back after more reading.

 

EdCB

 

Copper Contributor edcb
Copper Contributor
Posts: 5
Registered: ‎02-06-2015
Message 10 of 13
(4,251 Views)

OK.  I've been reading the posts (thanks again for the efforts).  I've been reading ONT specs, what little I can find on the web.  I've been reading about the Corning fiber products...  Learning a lot.  I now understand a bit about BPON/GPON, RF overlay, PON networks, and FTTH networks.  Lots of good background.  Maybe good stuff for my resume. Smiley Happy

 

Thanks for the pointer to hybrid drop cables.  The Corning product data on their website answered my questions.  It's still a pre-terminated drop cable.  But only one end is the OptiFit ruggedized connector for the connection to the splitter at the curb.  The premise end is a normal SC connection.  Bottom line is that it can be pulled through the existing underground 'conduit' and my new 'riser' conduit into the house.  I'll need to discuss all of this with Verizon...  (yeah, good luck on this one...).  I'll make my 'riser' and interior conduit no smaller ID than the underground conduit.  And use sweep elbows.

 

And something like the Moto ONT1000GT2 would fit in my available space in the equipment closet.  At most I'd need to locate the P/S and BBU in areas separate from the ONT, but still in easy cabling distance.  Again, I'd need to discuss what INDOOR style ONT they could provide.

 

I'm located in Monroeville PA.  Is there anyone 'out there' in the local area that might know what model ONT they could install??  And could they use a hybrid drop cable??

 

During the Vz installation, I'd temporily put the router on a shelf inside the wiring closet.  But then I'd most likely relocate it to an area more centrally located in the house.  I'd need to run a new CAT and RG6 cable to this location.  Too bad the router isn't POE/POE+ capable.  I like having my network components powered from a central location with UPS and genset backup...   I'm thinking about locating the router wall-wart P/S in my wiring closet and running a DC cable to the router.

 

I still need to workout some of the network topology issues.  For now I'd keep the FiOS router for NAT/DHCP/Firewall.  But when I relocate it I'll priobably move to another device for these capabilities.  Question:  Is the network (CAT or MoCA) at the ONT just an un-filtered connection, presumably directly on the FiOS backbone network.  There's no NAT function provided by the ONT?

 

Developing firewalls and network intrusion prevention/detection devices is my day-job, so I might actually DIY a router/firewall/IPS...  But I'll start with the FiOS standard box.

 

Thanks for the information and answers/comments to some of my networking questions.  I still have a few installation details that I need to workout before I order.

 

EdCB

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