Intermittent DSL Service

[JackGuy]

My Verizon DSL 1.0 Mbps service is intermittent.  Before phoning customer service I thought I would see what help I can get on this forum.

My System

Westell  6100F [ Modem / Router ] (model: F90-610015-06 rev H)

NETGEAR FA 311v2 PCI [ethernet adapter]

Windows XP SP3

I have noticed many complaints on this forum associating slow or intermittent connections with precipitation.  MY problems started as the summer thunderstorms started here in Florida, although the problems can occur on days without any local precipitation.

I have included a Westell diagnostic log that seem to be recording my connection problems.
============

The following diagnostic log file was copied from my Westell yesterday.

Diagnostic Log
Date: June 23, 2009
Time: 19:6:49

All Entries

        CURRENT MODEM STATUS

        DSL Modem Status.......  Up

        PPP Session Status......  n/a

        Connection Type.........  Routed Bridge

        Time set from.............  Daylight Savings

        Time since last boot....  0 days, 0 hrs: 39 mins: 33 secs


EVENTS
**********************************************************************
Events are listed starting from the most recent.
**********************************************************************
TUE JUN 23 19:05:50 2009
      CWMP: Final Http Return Code = 401


TUE JUN 23 19:05:50 2009
      CWMP: Inform (401).  The following events are true: 1 BOOT, 4 VALUE CHANGE


TUE JUN 23 19:05:50 2009
      CWMP: TCP Connected, SSL Connection Succeeded, Auth Type = Basic


TUE JUN 23 19:05:19 2009
      CWMP: Inform (401).  The following events are true: 1 BOOT, 4 VALUE CHANGE


TUE JUN 23 19:05:19 2009
      CWMP: TCP Connected, SSL Connection Succeeded, Auth Type = Basic

TUE JUN 23 19:04:20 2009
      US Atten:     31.5 DS Atten:     54.5


TUE JUN 23 19:04:20 2009
      US Margin:     17.0 DS Margin:      6.0


TUE JUN 23 19:04:20 2009
      US Tx Power:     11.9 DS Tx Power:     14.1


TUE JUN 23 19:04:20 2009
      US DSL Rate:  448 kbits/sec DS DSL Rate:  608 kbits/sec


TUE JUN 23 19:04:20 2009
      WanMgr reports DSL is UP


TUE JUN 23 19:03:57 2009
      WanMgr reports DSL is Down


TUE JUN 23 19:03:54 2009
      US Atten:     31.5 DS Atten:     54.5


TUE JUN 23 19:03:54 2009
      US Margin:     16.0 DS Margin:      6.0


TUE JUN 23 19:03:54 2009
      US Tx Power:     11.8 DS Tx Power:     14.5


TUE JUN 23 19:03:54 2009
      US DSL Rate:  448 kbits/sec DS DSL Rate:  768 kbits/sec


TUE JUN 23 19:03:54 2009
      WanMgr reports DSL is UP


TUE JUN 23 19:03:34 2009
      WanMgr reports DSL is Down


TUE JUN 23 19:02:59 2009
      CWMP: Final Http Return Code = 0


TUE JUN 23 19:02:59 2009
      CWMP: Inform (0).  The following events are true: 1 BOOT, 4 VALUE CHANGE


TUE JUN 23 19:02:59 2009
      CWMP: TCP Connected, SSL Connection Succeeded, Auth Type = None



TUE JUN 23 19:02:48 2009
      US Atten:     31.5 DS Atten:     55.0


TUE JUN 23 19:02:48 2009
      US Margin:     17.0 DS Margin:      6.0


TUE JUN 23 19:02:48 2009
      US Tx Power:     11.9 DS Tx Power:     14.1


TUE JUN 23 19:02:48 2009
      US DSL Rate:  448 kbits/sec DS DSL Rate:  608 kbits/sec


TUE JUN 23 19:02:48 2009
      WanMgr reports DSL is UP


TUE JUN 23 19:02:26 2009
      WanMgr reports DSL is Down


TUE JUN 23 19:02:21 2009
      US Atten:     31.5 DS Atten:     54.5


TUE JUN 23 19:02:21 2009
      US Margin:     16.0 DS Margin:      1.0


TUE JUN 23 19:02:21 2009
      US Tx Power:     11.9 DS Tx Power:     14.2


TUE JUN 23 19:02:21 2009
      US DSL Rate:  448 kbits/sec DS DSL Rate:  672 kbits/sec


TUE JUN 23 19:02:21 2009
      WanMgr reports DSL is UP


TUE JUN 23 19:02:21 2009
      WanMgr reports DSL is Down


TUE JUN 23 19:01:22 2009
      US Atten:     31.5 DS Atten:     54.5


TUE JUN 23 19:01:22 2009
      US Margin:     16.0 DS Margin:      6.0


TUE JUN 23 19:01:22 2009
      US Tx Power:     11.9 DS Tx Power:     14.2


TUE JUN 23 19:01:22 2009
      US DSL Rate:  448 kbits/sec DS DSL Rate:  672 kbits/sec


TUE JUN 23 19:01:22 2009
      WanMgr reports DSL is UP


TUE JUN 23 19:01:02 2009
      WanMgr reports DSL is Down


TUE JUN 23 19:00:44 2009
      CWMP: Final Http Return Code = 401


TUE JUN 23 19:00:44 2009
      CWMP: Inform (401).  The following events are true: 1 BOOT, 4 VALUE CHANGE


TUE JUN 23 19:00:44 2009
      CWMP: TCP Connected, SSL Connection Succeeded, Auth Type = Basic


TUE JUN 23 19:00:42 2009
      US Atten:     31.5 DS Atten:     54.5


TUE JUN 23 19:00:42 2009
      US Margin:     17.0 DS Margin:      6.0


TUE JUN 23 19:00:42 2009
      US Tx Power:     11.9 DS Tx Power:     14.4

 END TXT FILE

-------------------------

 JackGuy

[westom]

---

@JackGuy wrote:

My Verizon DSL 1.0 Mbps service is intermittent.  Before phoning customer service I thought I would see what help I can get on this forum.

---

You assumption is problems on the Verizon side of the modem.  Unacceptable data rate numbers from the diagnostic log confirm a problem exists on that side.

 

 Three useful tools provide other numbers to identify what and where the problem lies.  Signal strength (on another modem status page) in dB, Ping, and Traceroute.  How to use them, what numbers are most important here, and what those numbers say are described in “Verizon DSL Connection Problems” originally posted by lorddonk.

 

  Before going ‘into the ring’ with Verizon, first establish that problem is only in their wires; not in yours. For example, any other wire in the building could cause your problem.  Simply connect the DSL modem directly to the NID or whatever you have for an interface between Verizon’s wires and yours with no other telephone wire connected.  Do you symptoms (diagnostic log or those other tools) still report failure?  If yes, the problem is 100% Verizon.

 

  This is why I usually wire (or change) a DSL installation so that all other wires meet the DSL connection only at the service entrance.  And so that all other wires are ‘filtered’ at the service entrance.  A temporary disconnection of that filter means all other phone lines inside the house do not work while DSL works uninterrupted.  That filter relocated (inside the building) so that any other wire that might ‘eat’ DSL signals does not see DSL signals.

 

[JackGuy]

Thanks for the help. My connection has not dropped out today (yet) but connection speed has been very variable - from 500 to 950 kbps.

At the present time my ping and tracer routes have good numbers, but my data rates and db are low.

Transceiver Information           Downstream Path      Upstream Path
DSL Speed (Kbits/Sec)           640                           448
Margin (dB)                             9.5                           16.0
Line Attenuation (dB)               54.5                         31.5
Transmit Power (dBm)            13.5                         11.8

-----------

I don't understand the second part of your message!   Are you talking about my telephone wall jack?  Do you want me to remove the filter from my telephone?

[westom]

---

@JackGuy wrote:

Transceiver Information           Downstream Path      Upstream Path
DSL Speed (Kbits/Sec)           640                           448
Margin (dB)                             9.5                           16.0
Line Attenuation (dB)               54.5                         31.5
Transmit Power (dBm)            13.5                         11.8

-----------

I cringe when I see your numbers.  Your problem is obvious to anyone with basic knowledge – and often the kind of problem that causes a Verizon customer service rep to not roll a truck.  These guys have no idea what dB means.  And will do anything to avoid a truck roll.  Routinely make problems like yours more difficult.  Get the lineman and solutions start happening immediately - because their supervisor is not a business school graduate.

 

  Last time I saw your numbers, the wire was connected to a block inside the CO.  But the lineman found copper inside that wire was cracked. Wire was acting like a capacitor - not a conductor.  Therefore connection (and dBs) would change with humidity and vibration.

 

  When DSL service is lost (according to front panel indicator lights),  dBs typically drop significantly below 10.  Your dBs should be 16 or higher.  If not, you still have a major failure – even if data is transferring.

 

  DSL filter:  anything can eat DSL signals.  So we block DSL signals from anything that might eat those signals.  All POTS devices eat DSL.  But a stray nail inside the walls can also cause a phone wire to eat DSL signals.

 

  So we install filters – so that DSL signals will not pass through and get eaten.  If that filter is near a POTS device (your phone, answering machine, etc), then that POTS device does not eat signals.  But if that filter is down in the basement where your wires meet Verizon’s, then your wires also will not eat DSL signals.

 

  Eaten DSL signals mean lower dB numbers.  Anything you do to protect DSL radio waves from being eaten means higher dB numbers.  Anything you do to make it obvious that your wires and POTS devices are not causing problems means the lineman solves problems faster and the first time.

 

  Diagnostic test means all wires are disconnected from Verizon’s wires.  And your DSL modem is directly connected to Verizon's wire.  If dB numbers remain low, the problem is only on Verizon equipment – not inside your walls.  This paragraph describes a test.

 

  If that filter is located closer to Verizon’s wires, then less items inside you house can eat DSL radio waves.  This paragraph defines better household wiring.

Message Edited by westom on 06-25-2009 03:03 PM

[JackGuy]

I only have one phone jack except for the phone companies test jack on the exterior of the building.  Are you suggesting I connect to that?  It would be a way to bypass the interior wiring for test purposes, but I don't have a long enough Ethernet cable.  I may leave that test for the professionals.   I have indoor wire maintenance anyway.

I had 3 months of flawless service prior to my current problems and I doubt that my indoor wiring has changed.

[VoodooLounge13]

OK, I'm not Tech savvy at all, so all these numbers you're throwing out don't make any sense to me, but I just signed up with DSL and the service is deplorable.  I was faster on dial-up!  My wife hates it and is ready to throw the computer out the window.  It can't possibly be this slow!  What can be done?  How do we even find those numbers you're referencing?!?!?!?!  Someone please HELP!!  I feel like I just got sucked into some bad scheme for 2 years!!!!!!!

[westom]

---

@VoodooLounge13 wrote:
OK, I'm not Tech savvy at all, so all these numbers you're throwing out don't make any sense to me, but I just signed up with DSL and the service is deplorable. 

---

  {please keep it relevant}  Nothing here requires tech savvy.  Everything is about having junior high school science and math education - nothing more advanced.  That is for most problems such as getting change from a $20 bill.    But here, you don't even need that much knowledge.  All you need do is post those numbers to get solutions - immediately.

  {please keep your posts courteous}  All you had to do is cut and paste the numbers.  Instead you requested help without any facts - and no numbers.  Every reply will only be as good as the numbers you have provided.  If you provide no numbers, then expect zero help..

  Reread what was posted.  Find those numbers. Post those numbers.  Otherwise expect to remain a victim due to a fear of numbers.  Nothing here required you to be tech savvy.  Posting those numbers here can explain what you have.

Message Edited by ElizabethS on 06-26-2009 04:57 PM

[westom]

---

@JackGuy wrote:

  I may leave that test for the professionals.   I have indoor wire maintenance anyway.

---

  Because phone lines are about as complicated as lamp cords, interior wire maintenance is equivalent to buying supplemental warranties.  However since you have that warranty, then no reason to be doing any of this.  If you want professionals to do the testing, then asking questions here was really a waste of time.

  You have low dB numbers.  That means a complete failure.  When they say it is fixed AND those dB numbers always stay high, only then do you know the problem is solved.

 Gained from above is an appreciation of the only thing that really matters: the numbers - and which numbers.

[roadsession]

Hi

I am experiencing intermittent DSL drop out as well.

Just replaced the DSL modem but same symptoms.

Here are my numbers from the DSL modem:

VPI: 0

VCI: 35

DSL Mode Setting: Auto

DSL Negotiated Mode: G.DMT

Connection Status Showtime

Speed (down/up) 3360/832 kbps

ATM QoS class: UBR

output Power (Down/up) 11.9/14.4 dBm

Attainable Rate (down / up) 7104/948 Kbps

HEC Errors 0/0

OCD Errors 0/0

LCD Errors 0/0

SNR Margin (Down/up) 17.1/10.0 dB

Attenuation (Down/up)  44.0/24.0 db

What do you think / make of this connection?

Thanks

[JackGuy]

I am the person who started this thread and I have not yet resolved my problem. The fourth Verizon Tech just left my residence suggesting I request a new modem.  Our services may not be the same but I have a few questions so that we can compare notes.

When did you first start to experience your drop outs? Mine started toward the end of June at the start of the rainy season here in Florida.  Every thing worked perfectly for the previous three or four months.

Can you access your modems system logs. If so, about how often do experience drop outs.  I guess my average would be about 15 a day, although it varies wildly. More inportantly are they short or long. More than 95% of my drop-outs recover in less than a minute!  One or  two have lasted for more than an hour.

My Verizon service

Verizon DSL 1.0 Mbps (up) service

440 down

Wired Westell  6100F [ Modem / Router ] (model: F90-610015-06 rev H)

Jack Tampa