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Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit

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Copper Contributor
Copper Contributor
Posts: 13
Registered: ‎11-20-2010

Re: Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit

Message 11 of 20
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Thank you for coming back to respond, dslr595148.

 

I'm luckier, I'm retired, but there are plenty of demands on my time.  I'd be exploring Linux if this problem hadn't developed.  We'll be traveling again soon, also.

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Copper Contributor
Copper Contributor
Posts: 13
Registered: ‎11-20-2010

Re: Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit

Message 12 of 20
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I forgot to supply the link to the Upgrading and Servicing Guide:

http://h10032.www1.hp.com/ctg/Manual/c01895538.pdf

 

The apparently available manuals are linked from:

http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/manualCategory?product=4091762&lc=en&cc=us&dlc=en&lang=en&cc=us

 

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Silver Contributor V
Silver Contributor V
Posts: 668
Registered: ‎10-26-2008

Re: Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit

Message 13 of 20
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I still believe it is a firmware issue inside the Nvidia adapter. And if you don't want to buy another ethernet card (and in general buying and installing a card in an open PCI slot of a computer is unlikely to void the warranty), you can also get an ethernet to USB adapter. Several companies make them, and they are pretty inexpensive. That avoids having to open the case.

 

Just make sure that whatever one you buy has a 64 bit Windows 7 driver available. USB won't give you Gigabit Ethernet speed, but USB 2 will still give you far more than your DSL connection can generate.

 

 

One way or another you need to get around using the Nvidia adapter until you can verify that it isn't the problem. AT the moment all signs point toward it, because the other computers work, the cables work, and all 4 ports on the router are known good. That leaves your computer, and the description of the problem says that the negotation to establish the ethernet connection to the router is what is failing.

 

As for FiOS giving you Gigabit Ethernet, no such luck. The standard FiOS modem/router is an Actiontec MI424WR, and the manual says it is 10/100 only. It will give you a different ethernet adapter, but there is no assurance that it will work any better than your current one.

 

As for reseting the Modem/Router. Once upon it worked you say. One of the obviously things to try is to take the router back to the original configuration and see if it makes any difference. I doubt it will, but it wouldn't be the first time I was wrong.

 

 

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Copper Contributor
Copper Contributor
Posts: 13
Registered: ‎11-20-2010

Re: Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit

Message 14 of 20
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mattheww,

 

Your suggestion attacks the nVidia interface indirectly.  If we substitute another interface,whether PCI or USB, for the nVidia, we haven't proven there is a problem with the nVidia.  We've added weight to our suspicion, but we haven't provided a route to a fix.

 

What are the nVidia testing capabilities of Microsoft Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit?  How precisely can we test the nVidia?  How much detail can we report about the functioning of the nVidia?

 

 

As to the difference between DSL and FiOS, I wasn't expecting a speed difference.  I was expecting to provide a potentially more compatible router connection because the FiOS modem/router would be of more recent vintage.  This, of course, is similar to you nVidia substitution, but outboard of it.  Again, we would not be on a path for a fix of a documented problem.

 

 

Anyone who has used the Microsoft Windows Operating System to test internal components is definitely invited to this discussion.  Maybe I need to start another thread in some other forum here or elsewhere?

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Silver Contributor V
Silver Contributor V
Posts: 668
Registered: ‎10-26-2008

Re: Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit

Message 15 of 20
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The reason to suspect the Nvidia there is no shortage of Windows 7/64 bit users out there, and for all practical purposes, Vista/64 bit is the same O/S (Vista is NT6.0, Windows 7 ID's itself as NT6.1).

 The First rule of trouble shooting is to start eliminating suspects/variables. In your situation we are down to two. We need to get it down to 1.

You have two choices. You can spend the rest of your life trying to figure whether it is a Windows or an Nvidia issue, or you can look for a solution that actually works.

If you spend the $10 on the USB-Ethernet adapter, and it works, the issue is almost certainly the Nvidia Ethernet adapter. If it doesn't work, then the issue is almost certainly Windows 7/64 bit.

As I pointed out, the indication you are getting is that negotiation to establish the Ethernet connection fails. That's almost always firmware in the adapter itself or a problem with the physical connection. Since we have established that the cables are good, and the ports on the router are good. That leaves either the connection at the Adapter, or the adapter hardware/firmware as the likely culprit.

That's why I think it is an adapter issue rather than an Windows specific issue. Basically when the device power up, it sends a signal at 10mbps to say it is alive. The adapter on the other end replies, and based upon the information the two adapter exchange, you end up with 10/100/1000 mbps, half or full duplex or nothing...

Years ago I used to design peripheral sub-systems for computers. One of the more amazing issues was just how much liberty many vendors took with what was supposed to be a 'standard' interface, and how far you could get away from 'standard', and have the device still work.

 

The path of least resistance in this case is to find a way around the NVidia adapter, because I doubt you can do much to get around Windows7/64 bit, or are going to replace the whole computer.

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Copper Contributor
Copper Contributor
Posts: 13
Registered: ‎11-20-2010

Re: Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit

Message 16 of 20
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Is that your way of saying you don't have information to share about the Microsoft Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit Operating System diagnostics to test the nVidia?

 

I will probably buy a USB-Ethernet adapter, but that will mean this problem festers because the machine will be back serving its intended purpose and will no longer be available for problem research.  As a retired System Administrator, I'm used to running a problem to ground because it will benefit a community of folks in similar situations.  There, I had a machine for my testing purposes.  The budget here is smaller.

 

 

I do appreciate your contribution to my choice in this matter, mattheww.  I just feel more comfortable doing a bit more research.  Not only does it help others, it expands my personal knowledge.  That makes it fun.  I don't waste my time doing things that aren't fun for me any more.  I'm retired.

 

 

So, the current question is where do I find someone who is conversant with the Win 7/64 diagnostic capabilities, especially with regard to the nVidia network interface?

 

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Silver Contributor V
Silver Contributor V
Posts: 668
Registered: ‎10-26-2008

Re: Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit

Message 17 of 20
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I have a very low opinion of diagnostics based upon some 40 years in the computer business. The basic problem is that diagnostics test only for the expected failures. I cannot count the number of times I have gone through computer system dumps and found a choice comment next to the halt like . 'This Cannot happen' or 'impossible'.. The reality is a very large portion of failures are things that nobody thinks can possible fail, so they don't bother to test for them. In addition most diagnostics only test internal paths, your problem almost certainly involves an external path.

 

You are welcome to contact Nvidia and see if they offer any diagnostic software, but my advice is don't hold your breath.

One of the key difference between the mainframe hardware and mini and microcomputer hardware is the absence of internal  hardware integrity checks.

 

So if you can beg, borrow or steal a packet sniffer, you may be able to gain some insight, short of that, the odds on your gaining any useful information from internal diagnostics is somewhere between slim and none.

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Copper Contributor
Copper Contributor
Posts: 13
Registered: ‎11-20-2010

Re: Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit

Message 18 of 20
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Thank you, mattheww, after thirty years I share much of your opinion of those who write tools that are supposed to help us find a problem.  It is VERY difficult figuring out what might go wrong versus what will never go wrong without some field data.  That's part of what has made me more persistent in running these things to ground.  We may not only solve a particular problem, but improve the problem solving tools while we're at it.

 

I've thought of looking for an nVidia forum.  I hope nVidia understands the need for something other than pay for play.  My Yoga studies teaches me breathing is too important to not use it in stressful situations.  By the way, even the mainframe hardware diagnostics became less informative as we moved from discrete components to integrated circuits.

 

I am building a relationship with a professional Electrician who is trying to add computers to his supported product mix.  My spouse has suggested he might help us out of this situation.  It certainly is worth it, at this point, to see how well equipped he is.

 

So, if anyone else would like to help me understand what tools Microsoft Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit provides in the normal distribution, I'd appreciate the conversation.

 

Thank you, again, mattheww.  I do appreciate you helping me organize my efforts.

Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 1
Registered: ‎05-11-2011

Re: Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit

Message 19 of 20
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Hello.  I was reading your post and I believe I am having the same issue.  I just installed Windows 7 on my Dell PC and I get messages that I need to update the drivers for my modem which it seems are impossible to find.  I have the Westell 6100 and have had this modem for several years with my internet service.  I am not having any trouble connecting but this lack of updated drivers is making my system sluggish.  I have searched but haven't been able to find them.  Westell's site just directs you back to Verizon.  So here I am.  In a quandry and at a loss.  I hope I can get a resolution.  Thank you.

 

 

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Platinum Contributor III Platinum Contributor III
Platinum Contributor III
Posts: 7,547
Registered: ‎12-15-2010

Re: Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit

Message 20 of 20
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Verizon takes care of the modem updates themselves, so there shouldn't be any need to go searching for the firmware for the Westell. Verizon's website has them in the Self Help section., which is located here: http://www22.verizon.com/ResidentialHelp/HighSpeed/Troubleshooting/Network/FirmwareUpgrade/123451.ht...

 

Even then, you should not need to update the firmware as it's done automatically.

 

What you are probably looking for though would be your NIC drivers. Open the Start Menu and type in Device Manager. Locate the Network Adapters section of the Device Mananger and find out what NIC you have. That should get you onto the right path to getting an updated driver from the device manufacturer's website. If your PC is sluggish though, I doubt NIC drivers will help. I would point more towards either a lack of system resources or perhaps missing/non-native Video Drivers being loaded.

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