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Verizon outgoing spam detecter not competent to distinguish between spam and spam COMPLAINTS

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Copper Contributor
Copper Contributor
Posts: 9
Registered: ‎09-03-2010

Re: Verizon outgoing spam detecter not competent to distinguish between spam and spam COMPLAINTS

Message 11 of 19
(3,358 Views)

Thanks for the reference to spamdetector.notcaught@verizon.net

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Copper Contributor
Copper Contributor
Posts: 7
Registered: ‎08-31-2010

Re: Verizon outgoing spam detecter not competent to distinguish between spam and spam COMPLAINTS

Message 12 of 19
(3,324 Views)

The verizon link is useless. See my thread@ SPAM BLOCKER. It details the exact problem, with no solution.

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Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 2
Registered: ‎02-25-2011

Re: Verizon outgoing spam detecter not competent to distinguish between spam and spam COMPLAINTS

Message 13 of 19
(2,420 Views)

Verizon needs to get off its high horse and fix their problem not give us month service. I don't need an anti spam program I need Verizon to fix or rid their stupid program they are hurting my business!

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Platinum Contributor III
Platinum Contributor III
Posts: 5,881
Registered: ‎07-22-2009

Re: Verizon outgoing spam detecter not competent to distinguish between spam and spam COMPLAINTS

Message 14 of 19
(2,410 Views)

I think most people want more strict spam detectors, not more relaxed or loose spam detectors.  I for one appreciate not getting inundated with spam messages, so I wouldn't expect verizon to loosen the rules, but maybe you can try to get as much info about it so that you can work within the rules that you have. 

 

 

WhiteList 
if these are business emails then try to put yourself on a whitelist so you can send without a problem. 
Also Email them and have them review your emails so that they can update their spam detector.  Forward mail that should not be spam to spamdetector.update@verizon.net
If you have a static ip that you're sending the email from, then send an email with the IP addresses that are requested to be whitelisted to whitelist@verizononline.net

 

 

 

Also try to visit these websites, and read them.  They will give you a wealth of info that will help you succesfully send your email with little to no problem. 

 

 

www.isnotspam.com    go there and try to see what's causing your false positive.

Spam Checking Tools And Tips To Avoid Your Newsletter Being Filtered, Blacklisted Or Marked As Spam

 

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Copper Contributor
Copper Contributor
Posts: 9
Registered: ‎09-03-2010

Re: Verizon outgoing spam detecter not competent to distinguish between spam and spam COMPLAINTS

Message 15 of 19
(2,403 Views)

I am not attempting to send newsletters or marketing materials. All the incidents in question have involved outgoing spam COMPLAINTS, which of course include material that consists of spam. The problem has not been corrected and the department responsible has expressed no interest in correcting it, which indicates to me a disregard for quality of service and quite frankly a disregard for Verizon's reputation. This observation is underscored by the fact that what Verizon calls its spam filters did not  (where applicable) prevent the incoming spam that caused the incidents in the first place.

 

One way to defeat the outgoing spam filter is however to break up the domain name you wish to report, because the filter seems to act on certain domain names. E.g. if you want to report a domain like lowcostpiratedsoftware.com to the Business Software Alliance and similar entities, you can defeat the outgoing spam filter by reporting it as "low cost pira tedsoft ware.com" and telling the recipient he needs to remove the blanks. I have done this and have also made the reason emphatically clear; Verizon's ongoing operation of an outgoing spam filter that is not competent to distinguish between spam and spam complaints.

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Platinum Contributor III
Platinum Contributor III
Posts: 5,881
Registered: ‎07-22-2009

Re: Verizon outgoing spam detecter not competent to distinguish between spam and spam COMPLAINTS

Message 16 of 19
(2,396 Views)

so you were trying to forward spam?

 

how do you propose an automated system distinguish your good intent?

 

you have to understand, there isn't a person hitting yes or no.  its a automated system.  your suggestions work, so I would continue using them, I don't think I would want verizon loosening the spam detector rules to allow you to forward spam out, who knows what user has good or bad intentions. 

 

sorry I am just not following where you are upset.  was it a little inconvenient?  sure?  were you able to get around it?  sure.  is there a good way for them to program an automated system to decipher your intent?   I am not so sure....

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Copper Contributor
Copper Contributor
Posts: 9
Registered: ‎09-03-2010

Re: Verizon outgoing spam detecter not competent to distinguish between spam and spam COMPLAINTS

Message 17 of 19
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Re: "so you were trying to forward spam? how do you propose an automated system distinguish your good intent?"

 

(1) Most (in fact close to all) spam complaints involve forwarding spam. This is common sense and the vast majority of abuse desks and so on know this.

 

(2) Even though I am not on Verizon's payroll, I offered to help do the jobs of the people responsible for this system. I pointed out that, first of all, very few spammers send spam with their real E-mail address as the return address. Second, most spam is sent to hundreds or thousands of recipients as opposed to less than half a dozen as is the case with a typical spam complaint. The only thing I can currently say in Verizon's favor is that the outgoing spam filter does not appear to block E-mails to addresses that begin with "abuse" but not all abuse contact addresses are set up this way.

 

With regard to the first item, there ARE cases in which a computer that is hijacked with a virus will send spam from the owner's actual E-mail address to everybody in the computer's address book. One of the incidents in which Verizon blocked my outgoing mail was an attempt to warn a friend whose AOL account sent me an ad for a pirate software site. In other words, Verizon's outgoing spam filter blocked the transmission of a very urgent E-mail to warn a friend that his AOL account was being abused to send spam. This makes Verizon's anti-spam system a major part of the problem (spam) as opposed to the solution.

 

Here is a case though where Verizon's outgoing spam filter could actually make itself useful. Once a threshold level of apparent spam has been sent from a Verizon account--perhaps 20 or more E-mails because few if any spam COMPLAINTS would go to this many addresses--it sends an E-mail to the account in question to warn the owner that this is happening. If the E-mail is not answered (e.g. by clicking on a link) within a certain amount of time, the system assumes the computer is unattended and CALLS the owner with a recorded message. (I would personally be willing to put my office and cell phone numbers on record to allow Verizon to reach me in such a situation.) This would give the user the opportunity to disconnect from the Internet and run an anti-virus program to eliminate the problem. Alternatively, perhaps the Verizon DSL software could be set up to allow the user to block the ability to send E-mail while online, thus allowing the use of online anti-virus utilities while containing the unwanted and abusive software that was planted on the computer in question.

 

Meanwhile, here is what other people have to say about this problem:

 

http://www.broadbandreports.com/forum/r21971482-Outgoing-spam-filter

 

http://www.emailtide.com/2009/04/15/why-does-verizon-scan-e-mail-messages-i-send/

 

http://forum.spamcop.net/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t10100.html

“Well of course the message is spam. That's why I'm sending it to SpamCop. I have contacted verizon.net, and after a long time trying to explain my problem to a technician, he was unable to resolve anything. Before yesterday, I had no problems whatsoever. Has anyone else encountered this? Thank you for your help.”

 

“I mean, Verizon had to let the spam in for their subscribers to have it in the first place.” (My observation as well.)

 

 

http://www.windowskb.com/Uwe/Forum.aspx/outlook/9388/Email-rejected-as-spam-but-it-is-not

 

“The error is nearly certainly a Verizon problem. Some of the Verizon people
should not be support people; the couple I spoke with refused to admit that
there was any possibility whatsoever that it might be a Verizon problem. Yet
about an hour or two after I attempted to send messages and got the errors
described here, the messages were sent successfully. It was the exact same
message(s) that were in the outbox.”

 

http://businessforums.verizon.net/t5/High-Speed-Internet-DSL-and-Dial/Verizon-calls-my-legitimate-em...

 

 

All the above were brought to the attention of Verizon Investor Relations because they need to know how this problem is affecting Verizon's reputation as a service provider. The problem is not sufficiently serious that I would consider switching services because it admittedly happens rarely. Every time it recurs, though, it tells me that Verizon has not made any closed loop corrective action to fix it and this does affect the recommendation I would give Verizon as a service provider--e.g. a four star recommendation when I would ordinarily give a five, or a three where I would otherwise give a four.

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Platinum Contributor III
Platinum Contributor III
Posts: 5,881
Registered: ‎07-22-2009

Re: Verizon outgoing spam detecter not competent to distinguish between spam and spam COMPLAINTS

Message 18 of 19
(2,376 Views)

 


Second, most spam is sent to hundreds or thousands of recipients as opposed to less than half a dozen as is the case with a typical spam complaint. 

 

 

that is not in fact true.  In fact most spammers infect machines and then rely on those machines and their contact lists to push out their spam like a relay service.   It is not uncommon for spam to be delivered from an email address to just a handful of people and it be considered spam.    happens all the time, all day long, and is in fact a more effective way of delivering spam.    I am much more likely to open your email (if we knew each other) and an accompanying attachment, rather than a viagra email.  

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Platinum Contributor III
Platinum Contributor III
Posts: 5,881
Registered: ‎07-22-2009

Re: Verizon outgoing spam detecter not competent to distinguish between spam and spam COMPLAINTS

Message 19 of 19
(2,374 Views)

also stop forwarding the spam, simply notify your friend that he may have been compromised.  I am sure a number of us have had this happen to our friends, and rarely do I forward back the spam message to my friend and say "SEE, LOOK, HACKED!"

 

I simply email them and say - you may want to change your passwords, unless you are now selling viagra to all of your closest and most personal friends and family members....  

 

 

FYI: if I was infected and spreading spam, the last thing I would want, is for you to send the spam right back to me.  There's no real reason to be forwarding that spam.  

 

What you should be sending people to report spam is something similiar to the following.

 

 

 

Hello. The spammer below is either using your resources to send out bulk, unsolicited commercial e-mail ("spam") or is deceptively trying to make it look like he is. In either case, a legitimate company like yours probablywould not approve. The information below should be all you need.
--begin full headers--

 OR 


http://www.hendricom.com/samplecomplaint.htm


Sample E-Mail Abuse Complaint
 From: <removed>@hendricom.com
To: POSTMASTER@VTR.CL, GERENCIA@VTR.CL
CC: FRAUD@USPIS.GOV 
Subject: EMail Abuse Complaint 11/14/2004 7:05:25 AM

I believe this email either originated from your domain, your domain was involved in it's delivery, or you are the victim of a spammer abusing your domain. All of the information is included for you to take action.

Here is the SMTP information.


 
a responsible ISP or business should need nothing more than that.

 

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