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Connectivity issues caused by coax, will Verizon install ethernet line to the second floor?

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Darn
Nickel Contributor
Nickel Contributor
Posts: 31
Registered: ‎08-14-2010

Connectivity issues caused by coax, will Verizon install ethernet line to the second floor?

Message 1 of 13
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 Lately i've been having connectivity issues(bad lag, pages stop loading) and the problem appears to be the coax line that is running between my ONT(in the garage) and office(two floors up) .  How do i know it's the coax? Well, when the router is in the office and  I ping yahoo.com, i get an average of 120ms, ~10% packet loss. Then I moved the actiontec router to a 3 foot cable directly attached to my ONT and I get 20ms, zero packet loss. Unless im missing something it seems like there is a problem with the lines in my house and their ability to do internet over coax. My FIOS TV service works fine. I have tested all my other coax lines and they all have the same issue except for the one in the living room, however i cant use that line because wireless doesn't reach the office. So the only solution im seeing is to run an ethernet line from the ONT directly to the office. The distance is at most 75ft so signaling should not be an issue. Will Verizon install the ethernet line for me or will I have to do it myself? I feel like im not getting proper service and Verizon should be responsible for fixing it. If anyone here has other suggestions to remedy my problem please let me know. Thx guys!

12 REPLIES 12
eljefe
Gold Contributor IV
Gold Contributor IV
Posts: 1,217
Registered: ‎12-14-2009

Re: Connectivity issues caused by coax, will Verizon install ethernet line to the second floor?

Message 2 of 13
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I can't answer the question about Verizon running Cat5 for you.  I'm sure someone else here will have that answer.  But some thoughts about the problem you're seeing.

 

Is the coax from the garage to your office reasonably new and in good shape?

 

Have you tried changing the connectors at both ends?

 

How are splitters configured?  I would think you should have the router on one 3.5 dB leg of the first splitter and the rest of the house off any other splits.  And a splitter could be bad.  You could try getting a coax "barrel" from Radio Shack and, as a test, bypassing any splitter in between the ONT and the router in your office.

 

Is the run from the garage to the router about the same as the run to the living room?  I'm wondering if the router itself might be defective and require more signal than it should. 

 

FWIW, it sounds like I have a similar setup to yours and it just works.  I know some prefer Cat5 ONT-router for various reason but I like the Verizon default configuration for it's simplicity and for the fact that Verizon will support it if support is needed.   I wonder what tech support would say about your situation if you could get past tier 1 script reading.  🙂

 

Good luck.

 

P.S.

The more I think about it the more I suspect a splitter is your problem.  I say that because if I understand you correctly, you get the same results at the end of every piece of coax except in the living room.  Right?  That leads me to think the connection to the ONT is getting screwed up somewhere that it's being split.  FWIW.

 

edit & P.P.S.

This is the "barrel" I had in mind to bypass any splitters for troubleshooting purposes:

 

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103648

 

 

 

 

Anti-Phish
Gold Contributor III
Gold Contributor III
Posts: 1,122
Registered: ‎12-04-2009

Re: Connectivity issues caused by coax, will Verizon install ethernet line to the second floor?

Message 3 of 13
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@Darn wrote:

How do I know it's the coax? Well, when the router is in the office and  I ping yahoo.com, i get an average of 120ms, ~10% packet loss. Then I moved the actiontec router to a 3 foot cable directly attached to my ONT and I get 20ms, zero packet loss.


Are all the coax runs going through a single splitter, or do you have multiple splitters?

I agree with eljefe that because the living room works, but others don't, that suggests a splitter issue.

But it could also be an issue with unsuitable coax (RG59).

 

Is there anything unique about the living room coax run?

Has it been replaced with newer coax?

Is it on a different splitter?

 

Another troubleshooting step you can take is to check your MOCA stats.

How to check MOCA stats?

VZ normally charges for new cable runs (cat5 or coax).

Be aware also that VZ does not fish cables.

 

 

 

Darn
Nickel Contributor
Nickel Contributor
Posts: 31
Registered: ‎08-14-2010

Re: Connectivity issues caused by coax, will Verizon install ethernet line to the second floor?

Message 4 of 13
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Thx for the responses guys. I have checked my cable box and there is a 4-way splitter, so it appears all 4 rooms are on the same splitter. There is also a 2 way splitter in the office for the internet and television. The building is a duplex built in the early 90's. It is quite close to the ocean so rust and corrosion could be issues here. Today i went out and bought a new 4-way splitter because i noticed the old one had some corrosion on it. Unfortunately, that didn't fix the problem.  However, while i was digging around in the cable box i noticed some of the crimps looked old, corroded, and loose. So i guess my next plan of attack will be to re-crimp some of those old coax lines and see if that fixes it. Give me a few days to collect all the needed tools and ill update. Thanks again!

Darn
Nickel Contributor
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Posts: 31
Registered: ‎08-14-2010

Re: Connectivity issues caused by coax, will Verizon install ethernet line to the second floor?

Message 5 of 13
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So ive replaced the splitter, re-crimped all the ends  of my coax lines and the internet is still cutting out/lagging. And now the living room is giving me the same problems as all my other cable runs.

 

 


@Anti-Phish wrote:

@Darn wrote:

How do I know it's the coax? Well, when the router is in the office and  I ping yahoo.com, i get an average of 120ms, ~10% packet loss. Then I moved the actiontec router to a 3 foot cable directly attached to my ONT and I get 20ms, zero packet loss.


Are all the coax runs going through a single splitter, or do you have multiple splitters?

I agree with eljefe that because the living room works, but others don't, that suggests a splitter issue.

But it could also be an issue with unsuitable coax (RG59).

 


 

 

 Anti-Fish my cables are rg59. Could this be the source of my problem and also explain why it is intermittent? Back when we had satellite i had a problem getting a signal in one of my rooms. I didnt think the difference would be noticeable between rg6 and rg59. Is it?

 

As far as moca stats go it says im getting readings around 235.90 which seems fine.

 

 

 

Anti-Phish
Gold Contributor III
Gold Contributor III
Posts: 1,122
Registered: ‎12-04-2009

Re: Connectivity issues caused by coax, will Verizon install ethernet line to the second floor?

Message 6 of 13
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@Darn wrote:

 

So ive replaced the splitter, re-crimped all the ends  of my coax lines and the internet is still cutting out/lagging. And now the living room is giving me the same problems as all my other cable runs.

 

 Anti-Fish my cables are rg59. Could this be the source of my problem and also explain why it is intermittent? Back when we had satellite i had a problem getting a signal in one of my rooms. I didnt think the difference would be noticeable between rg6 and rg59. Is it?

 

As far as moca stats go it says im getting readings around 235.90 which seems fine.


It's impossible to tell you remotely if the rg59 is a problem or not.  rg59 has higher losses than rg6, especially at higher frequencies. Your splitters must be rated at least 1Ghz since MOCA runs above 1Ghz.  Your install tech should have checked signal levels with his sunrise meter at each coax outlet and also should have checked each splitter.

 

I would really suggest getting a tech out there to check it out when the problem is occurring.  It seems you can readily replicate the problem by moving the router.

 

 

Darn
Nickel Contributor
Nickel Contributor
Posts: 31
Registered: ‎08-14-2010

Re: Connectivity issues caused by coax, will Verizon install ethernet line to the second floor?

Message 7 of 13
(4,954 Views)

 


@Anti-Phish wrote:

It's impossible to tell you remotely if the rg59 is a problem or not.  rg59 has higher losses than rg6, especially at higher frequencies. Your splitters must be rated at least 1Ghz since MOCA runs above 1Ghz.  Your install tech should have checked signal levels with his sunrise meter at each coax outlet and also should have checked each splitter.

 

I would really suggest getting a tech out there to check it out when the problem is occurring.  It seems you can readily replicate the problem by moving the router.


 

Ive had a tech come out several times once because my ont died, and two times because of this issue. Basically they tell me they cant diagnose the problem unless they are here when it cuts out completely. Problem is there is no way of predicting it. Which is why i wanted to try ethernet.

 

Yesterday i was able to snake a cat5e line through an old built in vacuum tube from my study, to the ont in the garage. Tried calling Verizon to see if i could get the ethernet port activated on the ont but they told me it wasn't possible. One of the people i was forwarded to even tried to tell me coax was faster then ethernet. They told me the ont i had couldn't do ethernet and i would have to get a new one installed and i would be billed. They also told me I wouldn't be able to get video to my stb's if i used ethernet. Im not sure if these operators just dont want to bother filling out forms or they're actually telling me the truth. Upon further inspection of the ont i noticed the ethernet had been slightly filled with some sticky glue substance, so perhaps they were telling me the truth.  I thought there was some sort of bridge built into the ont where i could have coax doing the video to the stb's and ethernet for the internet.  Was i completely wrong? 

prisaz
Platinum Contributor III
Platinum Contributor III
Posts: 6,820
Registered: ‎08-23-2008

Re: Connectivity issues caused by coax, will Verizon install ethernet line to the second floor?

Message 8 of 13
(4,931 Views)

 


@Darn wrote:

 


@Anti-Phish wrote:

It's impossible to tell you remotely if the rg59 is a problem or not.  rg59 has higher losses than rg6, especially at higher frequencies. Your splitters must be rated at least 1Ghz since MOCA runs above 1Ghz.  Your install tech should have checked signal levels with his sunrise meter at each coax outlet and also should have checked each splitter.

 

I would really suggest getting a tech out there to check it out when the problem is occurring.  It seems you can readily replicate the problem by moving the router.


 

Ive had a tech come out several times once because my ont died, and two times because of this issue. Basically they tell me they cant diagnose the problem unless they are here when it cuts out completely. Problem is there is no way of predicting it. Which is why i wanted to try ethernet.

 

Yesterday i was able to snake a cat5e line through an old built in vacuum tube from my study, to the ont in the garage. Tried calling Verizon to see if i could get the ethernet port activated on the ont but they told me it wasn't possible. One of the people i was forwarded to even tried to tell me coax was faster then ethernet. They told me the ont i had couldn't do ethernet and i would have to get a new one installed and i would be billed. They also told me I wouldn't be able to get video to my stb's if i used ethernet. Im not sure if these operators just dont want to bother filling out forms or they're actually telling me the truth. Upon further inspection of the ont i noticed the ethernet had been slightly filled with some sticky glue substance, so perhaps they were telling me the truth.  I thought there was some sort of bridge built into the ont where i could have coax doing the video to the stb's and ethernet for the internet.  Was i completely wrong? 


No you were not wrong. The sticky stuff is a non corrosive to prevent oxidation and corrosion of the contacts. You can dig it out with a tooth pick or cotton swab being carefull not do damage the pins. You can have Ethernet WAN enabled and COAX LAN enabled on your router. You cannot have MOCA and Ethernet enabled on the ONT at the same time. You need to have COAX to the router and ONT from your splitter, Also Ethernet from the ONT to the WAN on the router. The bridge is built into your router. I have that set up with the 612 ONT, No problems. What model ONT do you have? It could be possible that you have an oddball ONT.

 

Darn
Nickel Contributor
Nickel Contributor
Posts: 31
Registered: ‎08-14-2010

Re: Connectivity issues caused by coax, will Verizon install ethernet line to the second floor?

Message 9 of 13
(4,916 Views)

 


@prisaz wrote:

 


@Darn wrote:

 


@Anti-Phish wrote:

It's impossible to tell you remotely if the rg59 is a problem or not.  rg59 has higher losses than rg6, especially at higher frequencies. Your splitters must be rated at least 1Ghz since MOCA runs above 1Ghz.  Your install tech should have checked signal levels with his sunrise meter at each coax outlet and also should have checked each splitter.

 

I would really suggest getting a tech out there to check it out when the problem is occurring.  It seems you can readily replicate the problem by moving the router.


 

Ive had a tech come out several times once because my ont died, and two times because of this issue. Basically they tell me they cant diagnose the problem unless they are here when it cuts out completely. Problem is there is no way of predicting it. Which is why i wanted to try ethernet.

 

Yesterday i was able to snake a cat5e line through an old built in vacuum tube from my study, to the ont in the garage. Tried calling Verizon to see if i could get the ethernet port activated on the ont but they told me it wasn't possible. One of the people i was forwarded to even tried to tell me coax was faster then ethernet. They told me the ont i had couldn't do ethernet and i would have to get a new one installed and i would be billed. They also told me I wouldn't be able to get video to my stb's if i used ethernet. Im not sure if these operators just dont want to bother filling out forms or they're actually telling me the truth. Upon further inspection of the ont i noticed the ethernet had been slightly filled with some sticky glue substance, so perhaps they were telling me the truth.  I thought there was some sort of bridge built into the ont where i could have coax doing the video to the stb's and ethernet for the internet.  Was i completely wrong? 


No you were not wrong. The sticky stuff is a non corrosive to prevent oxidation and corrosion of the contacts. You can dig it out with a tooth pick or cotton swab being carefull not do damage the pins. You can have Ethernet WAN enabled and COAX LAN enabled on your router. You cannot have MOCA and Ethernet enabled on the ONT at the same time. You need to have COAX to the router and ONT from your splitter, Also Ethernet from the ONT to the WAN on the router. The bridge is built into your router. I have that set up with the 612 ONT, No problems. What model ONT do you have? It could be possible that you have an oddball ONT.

 


My ONT is a model 612. I absolutely hate dealing with verizon phone tech support. The whole time they just bounce me around from different departments because they hire lazy operators that only know how to read from a script.  Now I'm pretty sure they lied to me.  Ill shoot out some e-mails tonight. Thanks again everyone for all the help. At least verizon is smart enough to have a place like this.

 

prisaz
Platinum Contributor III
Platinum Contributor III
Posts: 6,820
Registered: ‎08-23-2008

Re: Connectivity issues caused by coax, will Verizon install Ethernet line to the second floor?

Message 10 of 13
(4,866 Views)

 


@Darn wrote:

 

My ONT is a model 612. I absolutely hate dealing with Verizon phone tech support. The whole time they just bounce me around from different departments because they hire lazy operators that only know how to read from a script.  Now I'm pretty sure they lied to me.  Ill shoot out some e-mails tonight. Thanks again everyone for all the help. At least Verizon is smart enough to have a place like this.

 


Use the contact methods found on the link at the bottom of this page. http://www22.verizon.com/content/contactus/

 

Since you have had the ONT replaced, it may be a good idea to have a new Router sent out. It could be an intermittent router and you are doing all this and going through the aggravation for nothing. But if you want Ethernet active on your ONT, keep reading.

 

Contact support again. You may be able to do this through the online chat and avoid the aggravation of being on hold. Tell them you have CAT5e from the ONT to the Router WAN port and insist that they switch it. Doing this while in chat you will lose the chat, and they may want your home number since your chat will be dropped.

 

Please note if you have a coax or splitter issue, this will not fix your connectivity to your STBs or the underlying causes. But Tech support should be able to make this change flawlessly once an order has been placed in the system, They used to do it on the fly, but now need to keep track of who has what.

 

Yes Ethernet will work without question on the ONT 612. That is my setup. Leave all the coax connected as is, plug the Ethernet into the WAN port on the Router and the ONT. Cleaning the port on the ONT. If I remember the tech that came out and replaced my old 610 with the new 612 had to dig the protective coating out of the Ethernet jack on the 612. Once the connection is switched to Ethernet, you will need to reboot the router. Cycle Power. Might be a good idea to do a factory reset, but you would need to log into the router and set your password afterwards. To be sure the router is operation on the Ethernet cable, unhook the coax temporally from the router. When you do this your STBs will lose their connection, but this is just for testing your Ethernet WAN to the ONT.

 

If for some reason your Verizon router fails, you can use your own router for internet with this configuration, but your STBs will not update, and their Internet options will not function. This configuration allows you to run unsupported configurations which causes problems for Verizon and they can not support every router configuration under the sun. So they attempt to avoid this. If they do not see their router as the primary router, you will not get support.

 

 

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