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Fascinating chart on Netflix problem

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FlyerQ
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Posts: 30
Registered: ‎09-18-2012

Re: Fascinating chart on Netflix problem

Message 11 of 19
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This is all making more sense

 

http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/129239

 

Hubrisnxs
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Registered: ‎07-22-2009

Re: Fascinating chart on Netflix problem

Message 12 of 19
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The best example of this is how Netflix’s player recently gave out messages saying that Verizon was at fault regarding quality issues, but then when challenged by Verizon to back up their claim, Netflix announced they would discontinue showing these messages on June 16th. Originally Netflix said these messages would be rolling out in a phased deployment on all networks, but in their blog post yesterday, they now say these messages were just a “test”. To me, it looks like Netflix simply created noise in the market, again with no data, and then when pressured by Verizon to prove their case, Netflix instead decided to stop sending the messages and now release any details. Why? If the problem lies within Verizon, Netflix should let us see the data that shows this and stand behind it. Why back down if they have the data to show where the problem is coming from?

 

 

 

...

 

Netflix’s accusation is that ISPs have purposely congested their peering points in order to specifically degrade the Netflix service. What Netflix has failed to be transparent about is that Netflix has always paid to deliver their traffic. CDNs like Akamai, Limelight and Level 3 successfully managed the majority of all of Netflix’s video and were responsible for Netflix customer performance. Each of these companies successfully delivered Netflix via all the same transit paths and business relationships equally available to Netflix today. When Netflix took over the routing controls for their video traffic with their own CDN Open Connect, customer performance began to suffer as highlighted in Netflix’s own data that they shared with the Washington Post. I added a red circle to the chart to show when the Netflix changes took place and the impact to customer performance by ISPs.

 

 



hmmm...   That's odd....   o_O

db909
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Registered: ‎08-02-2013

Re: Fascinating chart on Netflix problem

Message 13 of 19
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@Hubrisnxs wrote:

It was less than 72 hours after verizon agreed to a deal with netflix, and that's just agreeing to a deal, who knows what if anything was finalized.  



72 hrs?  Netflix agreed to pay FIOS in April.  Comcast had Netflix running smooth in two weeks after Netflix agreed to pay them.

 

 

"The deal is similar to one Netflix made with Comcast in February. As a result, in March, their joint customers saw their streaming speed jump nearly 50 percent "

 

So the question remains, when will FIOS actually do something beyond taking cash from Netflix?

 

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-04-28/netflix-agrees-to-pay-verizon-for-faster-network-access.htm...

 

 

db909
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Bronze Contributor II
Posts: 214
Registered: ‎08-02-2013

Re: Fascinating chart on Netflix problem

Message 14 of 19
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@FlyerQ wrote:

This is all making more sense

 

http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/129239

 


Of course.  They are huge .

 

Companies like Comcast and Verizon really fear being classified as an utility, but frankly that is what they are.

Smith6612
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Registered: ‎12-15-2010

Re: Fascinating chart on Netflix problem

Message 15 of 19
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@db909 wrote:

@Hubrisnxs wrote:

It was less than 72 hours after verizon agreed to a deal with netflix, and that's just agreeing to a deal, who knows what if anything was finalized.  



72 hrs?  Netflix agreed to pay FIOS in April.  Comcast had Netflix running smooth in two weeks after Netflix agreed to pay them.

 

 

"The deal is similar to one Netflix made with Comcast in February. As a result, in March, their joint customers saw their streaming speed jump nearly 50 percent "

 

So the question remains, when will FIOS actually do something beyond taking cash from Netflix?

 

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-04-28/netflix-agrees-to-pay-verizon-for-faster-network-access.htm...

 

 


Verizon is not taking on sustained amounts of money I'm sure until the interconnection points are up and running, and taking on traffic. The reason why Comcast was fast to improve after the deal was announced, was due to both Netflix and Comcast engineers working on the problem months before the deal was signed and announced. In the case of Netflix and Verizon, the deal was worked out and now the engineering work is beginning from scratch.

 

See this article: http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/06/why-verizon-wont-solve-its-netflix-problem-as-...

 

Now yes, one can argue Verizon should have been working with Netflix before announcing the deal like Comcast did. But, would any company realistically put time and money into another firm unless they knew that they were destined to become a paid client? Yes, some do. When you think about buying enterprise connectivity, I can guarantee that no one - Cogent, Level3, Verizon Business, Comcast, TW Telecom, etc will go to deliver a circuit to you in advance without having a signed deal at hand. Who's to say that you won't just back off of the deal?

 

 There is also the matter of whether or not a company should work with another company without a signed deal in the first place. Let's say Verizon was working with Netflix before a signed deal was in place, and Netflix or Verizon begin bashing each other about how the other is a terrible company while all of the preemptive work is taking place. Wouldn't that leave a bad taste in someone's mouth hypothetically? What incentive would there be left to work with a company who seeks to make an enemy out of the other? What if Netflix or Verizon bomb out at the last minute without a signed deal? That's money and valuable time out the window. Comcast took a risk - Verizon remained a bit conservative.

 

In this case, Verizon Business (the backbone / Tier 1 company) which connects Verizon Online LLC (two separate entities under a parent company) to the Internet is signing a deal with Netflix for connectivity. It takes time to engineer circuits, and if Netflix is already putting some money on the table for Verizon Business to fulfill their obligations, then rest assured it will happen. Having worked in datacenter environments, it can take a really long time to get everything engineered on both ends when working at hundreds of Gigabits to the Terabit scale. This includes running and testing fiber - not just running Fiber across Equinix co-los and slipping some modules into shelves/blades.

db909
Bronze Contributor II
Bronze Contributor II
Posts: 214
Registered: ‎08-02-2013

Re: Fascinating chart on Netflix problem

Message 16 of 19
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This is all mildy interesting, but FIOS has gone from intentionally letting ports get saturated to extracting money from Netflix per an agreement in April and still customers suffer.

 

Let's not forget Netflix offered a no cost to FIOS solution last year, which FIOS declined.  So just what has the crack FIOS engineering group been thinking all this time since Netflix issues started last year?  That there was no problem?  That the problem could some how be resolved with them doing absolutely nothing?  Is that why zero planning occurred prior to the agreement in April? 

 

Oh wait a minute, how silly of me.  The longer they drag this out the more they can do to help their video streaming product Redbox.  Memo to Engineering:  bury your heads in the sand please. 

 

You folks starting to see why an ISP should not be allowed to compete against companies that rely upon the ISP to provide an equal playing field when it comes to bandwidth?  I mean good god, FIOS is getting my 2nd tier DSL providers, how can you defend this nonsense?

Hubrisnxs
Platinum Contributor III
Platinum Contributor III
Posts: 5,881
Registered: ‎07-22-2009

Re: Fascinating chart on Netflix problem

Message 17 of 19
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Let's not forget Netflix offered a no cost to FIOS solution last year, which FIOS declined.

 



 think the ARStechnica article responded to this best - "If someone comes to you and says, 'hey I'm big, I want differentiated service, I'd like to move close to your consumers, so can you please make 40 inches of space and 5,000 watts of power available at 100 sites, thanks very much,' you would normally say, 'I'm in the business of selling that—here's my price list."

Netflix can fix performance issues via a few mouse clicks and good business decisions around transit providers

Hubrisnxs
Platinum Contributor III
Platinum Contributor III
Posts: 5,881
Registered: ‎07-22-2009

Re: Fascinating chart on Netflix problem

Message 18 of 19
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at&t was pretty funny about the whole thing.  not really a fan of them, but....

 


When a reporter pointed out that Netflix keeps complaining about the deals, Cicconi brushed the objections aside."Then why on Earth would they have agreed to them? I think that's double-talk," he added. "No company that's in a for-profit business is going to act against its economic interests. Sure, any company would like to pay zero for services they need to deliver their business, but that's not a practical approach."

 

db909
Bronze Contributor II
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Posts: 214
Registered: ‎08-02-2013

Re: Fascinating chart on Netflix problem

Message 19 of 19
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@Hubrisnxs wrote:

Let's not forget Netflix offered a no cost to FIOS solution last year, which FIOS declined.

 



 think the ARStechnica article responded to this best - "If someone comes to you and says, 'hey I'm big, I want differentiated service, I'd like to move close to your consumers, so can you please make 40 inches of space and 5,000 watts of power available at 100 sites, thanks very much,' you would normally say, 'I'm in the business of selling that—here's my price list."

Netflix can fix performance issues via a few mouse clicks and good business decisions around transit providers


That is a nonsenical response that does not begin to address the original comment. 

 

FIOS is a much bigger company than Netfix {please keep it relevant}.





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