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Fios Tv can no longer be called "STUNNING" after img 1.60 update!

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TheSanchez
Silver Contributor I
Silver Contributor I
Posts: 218
Registered: ‎11-01-2008

Re: Fios Tv can no longer be called "STUNNING" after img 1.60 update!

Message 21 of 37
(7,835 Views)

Here is some information I recieved(you techies should like this) in an email the other day that will clarify the softer SD picture, sorry for the wall of text:

 

The old IPG(verizon's first FiOS TV guide) was designed a few years back and was set to the highest "sharpness" level to allow SD video to look good on the older CRT TVs. When we launched FiOS TV, this was the primary TV type in the field. After about a year, flat panel TVs began to take hold of the consumer market at a much faster pace and as our customers bought new TVs, we started to get PQ complaints about SD video on their new HDTVs.   Besides the industry standard tagline of expected poor picture quality of 480i video unconverted for display on a 1366+ x 768+ resolution screen, we did find that the MPEG vertical filter set to a level of 26 allowed for the edges of the MPEG macroblocks building the image to be visible. So we began to work towards what changes we could make to improve SD PQ on HDTVs. The first change came when we first began IMG deployment IMG 1.0. The primary change here was a video scale change for SD from 704 pixels wide to 720 pixels wide - but no changes were made to the vertical filter (still at level 26).  All subsequent IMG releases up to 1.03 did not change anything else to the vertical filter.  We were in the midst of QIP7xxx development when the above releases of IMG 1.03, 1.04, 1.05 came out for the 6xxxs and 2500s. The next release was IMG 1.5, and this was when we began QIP7xxx deployment. With IMG 1.5, we finally made changes to the MPEG vertical filter that we had wanted to do since the IPG.  Even though we put the vertical filter where we wanted (level 6), Motorola had turned off MAD (motion adaptive deinterlacing) due to a request to support gaming low latency.  IMG 1.6 was where we were able to correct MAD being left out of IMG 1.5. IMG 1.6 represents the picture quality settings we had come up with 18 months ago from our testing with IPG. IMG 1.6 has the MPEG vertical filter set to level 6 (softer than 26, but not set to 0) and it has MAD turned on.  The reason we have been saying IMG 1.6 will help SD picture quality on HDTVs is because the softening of the MPEG vertical filter allows for all the MPEG "mosquito noise" visible at level 26 to get cleaned up. Yes, the picture is changed slightly, and could be called "softer"; but by all of our user studies - it was an absolute improvement.  Note that these settings were not made for any specific TV, it is changes to how the ASTBs process SD video - HD video is not affected.   

So now lets talk about IMG 1.6.1. Since it was 18 months between when we created the desired setting changes for IPG, that finally got implemented in IMG 1.6 - there has been much improvement with flat panel TVs (obviously). So, earlier this year we did another study with picture quality - and the result of this round of testing will come out in IMG 1.6.1. The picture is slightly sharper than what is in 1.6 and we put in a little edge enhancement. Again, by all accounts PQ in 1.6.1 is nothing but improved over 1.6. 

 

Now for the Good Stuff:

 

However - as we recognize that every customer prefers their PQ to look a certain way, we are currently working on creating an "MPEG Slider" in IMG. Basically a menu option the customer can access to adjust the vertical filter / smoothing / edge enhancement abilities of the Broadcom chip in the STB. It will have 5 selectable settings available to choose from on this slider bar - the customer won't know the details behind each setting - only that they can select one and decide if they like the PQ better or worse (much like the available picture settings on the TV itself). Once they have tried all 5 out, then they can choose which one they want to use, and of course change it later at any time. Again, these settings would only affect SD PQ on an ASTB. One of these settings will be "Off", which will disable all video post processing altogether (which is what the Mot boxes with the other MSOs do today - but they will be implementing changes like we have made soon). 

 

So here you have it ladies and gentleman.  Take it for what you will.  There was a lot of commotion about this over on DSL reports.com and this is what i recieved when i inquired. 

 

The basic meaning behind that giant wall of text is that it was an unintentional side effect of the changes made to help HDTVs(according to the author of the email).  The changes were put into place without giving us, the customers(i am also a verizon employee but i am here talking to you guys as a consumer as well), a way to change settings.  That way will be coming in a future release. 

 

TheSanchez
Verizon Telecom
Verizon Content Management Center




Notice: Content posted by Verizon employees is meant to be informational and does not supercede or change the Verizon Forums User Guidelines or Terms or Service, or your Customer Agreement Terms and Conditions or Plan.

Keyboards
Gold Contributor VII
Gold Contributor VII
Posts: 2,323
Registered: ‎08-05-2008

Re: Fios Tv can no longer be called "STUNNING" after img 1.60 update!

Message 22 of 37
(7,805 Views)

So, after reading your "wall of text" 2 questions come to mind:

  1. Why mess with the SD signal at all?  It is a digital signal and I have a sharpness control on my set - just pass it on as received (another reason for a "pass-thru" mode on the STB).  
  2. When will 1.6.1 be in general release? I have been "forced" by Verizon's crappy SD PQ to move a DCT-700 to my 52" Sharp LCD in order to be able to watch any SD channel (the cheapest adaptor gives the best SD PQ - it probably doesn't do any post processing, just outputs the data as received - go figure).
If a forum member gives an answer you like, give them the Kudos they deserve. If a member gives you the answer to your question, mark the answer as Accepted Solution so others can see the solution to the problem.
TheSanchez
Silver Contributor I
Silver Contributor I
Posts: 218
Registered: ‎11-01-2008

Re: Fios Tv can no longer be called "STUNNING" after img 1.60 update!

Message 23 of 37
(7,794 Views)

I understand exactly where you are coming from Keyboards.  As a consumer as well I am plagued by all of the problems that everyone else here has.  As for question one, I believe I have the answer for you.  When I had cox cable service my standard picture was ok and HD was ok.  When I moved over to FiOS 8 months ago my SD picture became amazing on one of my samsung slimfit CRT TV sets.  I would assume that is why it was done(I can only assume because I am not an IMG developer).  And as you notice towards the end of the email the author did say that one of the 5 settings of the new MPEG bar will be an off setting which will basically be a passthrough much like the DCT700 model.  As far as the 1.6.1 release there really arent any firm dates as the dates change very frequently depending on what code they are implementing and what code they are taking out. 

 

I am really sorry about the frustration this is causing because I am in the same boat as you in terms of my SD picture on my big(screen 48" sony), so I really know how you feel. 

TheSanchez
Verizon Telecom
Verizon Content Management Center




Notice: Content posted by Verizon employees is meant to be informational and does not supercede or change the Verizon Forums User Guidelines or Terms or Service, or your Customer Agreement Terms and Conditions or Plan.

Yaco
Copper Contributor
Copper Contributor
Posts: 19
Registered: ‎08-28-2008

Re: Fios Tv can no longer be called "STUNNING" after img 1.60 update!

Message 24 of 37
(7,776 Views)

Hi,

    Hope you didn't mind but I posted your comment in DSL ReportsSmiley Happy

Lee

Message Edited by Yaco on 11-06-2008 08:56 AM
BelTelMel
Nickel Contributor
Nickel Contributor
Posts: 26
Registered: ‎09-28-2008

Re: Fios Tv can no longer be called "STUNNING" after img 1.60 update!

Message 25 of 37
(7,763 Views)
This past weekend (on my multi-room 6xxx HD-DVR with v1.60) I viewed "No Country For Old Men". It is currently playing for free on "VOD" under the "Subscriptions - Starz" folder. It is only available in SD. The picture quality was the absolute worst I have ever seen. If I didn't know better, I'd swear I was watching a bootleg copy. It boggles my mind how Verizon could even think of allowing this type of substandard video quality on their network. 
Yaco
Copper Contributor
Copper Contributor
Posts: 19
Registered: ‎08-28-2008

Re: Fios Tv can no longer be called "STUNNING" after img 1.60 update!

Message 26 of 37
(7,763 Views)

Hi,

    Can someone from your department get a date or timeframe for update deployment?

Thx

Lee

Techman28
Gold Contributor IV
Gold Contributor IV
Posts: 1,340
Registered: ‎10-13-2008

Re: Fios Tv can no longer be called "STUNNING" after img 1.60 update!

Message 27 of 37
(7,615 Views)
 1.6.1 will begin later this month possibly early next month.  Our last areas to receive the 1.6 upgrade are tonight so it could start next week but things are subject to change.
hosehead
Copper Contributor
Copper Contributor
Posts: 12
Registered: ‎10-24-2008

Re: Fios Tv can no longer be called "STUNNING" after img 1.60 update!

Message 28 of 37
(7,584 Views)

What upsets me the most is that this service was sold to me on PQ.  I made the move to FiOS for the PQ.

 

So why didn't someone tell me when they were selling this to me that "The PQ is AWESOME! (Once we fix what we broke)"  

 

I was duped into changing TV providers with the promise of superior PQ and I am not getting it.  There should be a law against this (isn't there already?).  

 

So now that I have been deceived, what next?  

 

{edited for content}

Message Edited by CharlotteS on 11-10-2008 01:14 PM
TimSykes
Gold Contributor III
Gold Contributor III
Posts: 1,059
Registered: ‎10-21-2008

Re: Fios Tv can no longer be called "STUNNING" after img 1.60 update!

Message 29 of 37
(7,578 Views)

@hosehead wrote:

 

{edited}


 
{no personal comments please}  If you have even read this post you would know that they are working on the fix. Things take time to fix, before the 1.6 software the image was better, something in that firmware messed it up. A new update will be out within a month. {edited}
Message Edited by TimSykes on 11-10-2008 10:43 AM
Message Edited by CharlotteS on 11-10-2008 01:13 PM
hosehead
Copper Contributor
Copper Contributor
Posts: 12
Registered: ‎10-24-2008

Re: Fios Tv can no longer be called "STUNNING" after img 1.60 update!

Message 30 of 37
(7,570 Views)

{no personal comments, please}

 

I was deceived.  I was sold this product on picture quality, and the picture quality sucks.  That is a deceptive trade practice.

 

{edited}

 

They are getting MY money for something that is not what they promised. 

Message Edited by hosehead on 11-10-2008 10:59 AM
Message Edited by CharlotteS on 11-10-2008 01:11 PM
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