Re: Service unjustly downgraded first week of July, suspect conspiracy
somegirl
Champion - Level 3

No conspiracy here, just Verizon catching up to what is already standard for most ISPs. They are not being sneaky or deceptive, and they are certainly not trying to "eliminate competition." They are trying to prevent spam and make the overall email experience better for ALL internet users.

If you need more information on why this is being implemented or how to correct it, Verizon has posted the following page: http://www.verizon.net/port25

Some excerpts:

Why is Verizon blocking outbound port 25?

The majority of spam (unsolicited email) on the Internet is caused by malicious software viruses that take control of infected computers. These viruses direct the infected machines to send email through port 25. Verizon takes spam very seriously. Verizon blocks outgoing connections on port 25 to prevent infected computers from being used by spammers to send unsolicited email. Outbound port 25 blocking is a standard industry method to control spam.

Will I be impacted by port 25 blocking?

If you have a dynamic IP address and you use a third party email account to send email from a desktop client such as Outlook®, Outlook Express® or similar programs, you may be affected and should continue to read this notice. If you are using email provided as part of your VErizon service or a web-based email account from another provider, you will not be affected.

I am using a third party email account. I also use a desktop client to manage my email. What must I do to continue using my third party service?

You have three options:

  1. Change your email client to send email using port 587. Click step-by-step instructions to change your port settings now.
  2. Use web based email services. Web based e-mail is unaffected by port 25 blocking. Check with your e-mail provider to see if web based access is available.
  3. Upgrade to a FIOS or High Speed Internet account with static IP addressing. Business customers may subscribe to static IP addressing.
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Re: Service unjustly downgraded first week of July, suspect conspiracy
harrydeem
Enthusiast - Level 3

Many thanks, somegirl. I commend you for attempting to clear this matter up definitively and thoroughly, with useful links and citations. Unfortunately, even though I read the cited pages, the issue is still rather cloudy from my vantage.

Okay, I suppose port 25 blocking is pretty standard. Another qualified individual also told me that recently. But changing to port 587 is no solution. Primarily because I tried that approach and it failed to work! ..but for a different reason I suspect.

As I stated in one of my earlier posts, this thread, I AM successful in sending email from Outlook Express via port 25 if I specify Verizon's outgoing server and supply my Verizon username and password to authenticate that connection. But I can't send email that way to just anyone! I have no success writing to addresses at All2easy.net domain or to many other users at various domains. But I can successfully send emails that way to many many users at other various domains. It makes no sense at all! If only there were some rhyme or reason. Note well that if I use this configuration and a recipient/domain is blocked, the mail is technically "sent" from Outlook Express, but I get back an "undeliverable" message from Verizon a few moments later. It will say something like,

Your message cannot be delivered to the following recipients:
  Recipient address: support@all2easy.net
  Reason: Remote SMTP server has rejected address
  Diagnostic code: smtp;550 Blocked7
  Remote system: dns;mail.sentinelmail.net

On the other hand, if I configure Outlook Express to send emails through All2easy.net's own SMTP server, using port 587, nothing goes through at all and I get an immediate error message from OE, namely:

The connection to the server has failed.

Account: 'Harry at All2easy.net', Server: 'email.all2easy.net',

Protocol: SMTP, Port: 587, Secure(SSL): No, Socket Error: 10061,

Error Number: 0x800CCC0E

Either Verizon is blocking port 587 or just that specific server -- I really have no idea. It's either that or maybe perhaps the switch to port 587 requires the folks down at All2easy.net to implement some software configuration change there, and they haven't (or won't). I am not exactly sure just how to interpret the error message. Assist me if you're able, please.

And BTW, I don't quite understand the distinction of port 587 changeover. If Verizon (and/or other ISPs) want to switch to close port 25 and open port 587, then spammers will simply adjust their viruses to use port 587. Kindly enlighten me, if you can, why all this foofaraw.

My main mistake (as I stated previously) was to test each trial configuration by sending an email to myself at All2easy.net, and none went through. When I broadened my testing to include other recipients at various domains, I discovered just how spotty is my outgoing email function. I think maybe Verizon still has some work to do to get this switchover correct. But I am not tech-savvy enough to be sure just why this all is so entangled and devious.

Thanks again, somegirl, but the issue remains a gawd-awful miasma.

[Edit: I also just tried using port 587 AND Verizon's server, "outgoing.verizon.net" (specifying my proper login for that server). But that failed as well -- blocked. I could not send email to myself at All2easy.net nor to support@all2easy.net. I got an "Undeliverable" notice from Verizon a few moments after each attempt.]

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Re: Service unjustly downgraded first week of July, suspect conspiracy
somegirl
Champion - Level 3

@harrydeem wrote:

Note well that if I use this configuration and a recipient/domain is blocked, the mail is technically "sent" from Outlook Express, but I get back an "undeliverable" message from Verizon a few moments later. It will say something like,

Your message cannot be delivered to the following recipients:
  Recipient address: support@all2easy.net
  Reason: Remote SMTP server has rejected address
  Diagnostic code: smtp;550 Blocked7
  Remote system: dns;mail.sentinelmail.net


This error message actually means that the server at All2Easy.net has refused the message. (See "Remote" SMTP server) Specifically, it is being rejected by mail.sentinelmail.net - This is something you should be able to have the people at All2Easy look at. From what is given here, I cannot tell whether they are blocking mail from the email address used or the IP address. It is also possible that the specific content of the message is being blocked, but I'm not sure how All2Easy's Mail filtering is set up.


@harrydeem wrote:

On the other hand, if I configure Outlook Express to send emails through All2easy.net's own SMTP server, using port 587, nothing goes through at all and I get an immediate error message from OE, namely:

The connection to the server has failed.

Account: 'Harry at All2easy.net', Server: 'email.all2easy.net',

Protocol: SMTP, Port: 587, Secure(SSL): No, Socket Error: 10061,

Error Number: 0x800CCC0E


From what I'm seeing, it looks like email.all2easy.net is not configured to work with these particular settings. Are you using your username and passowrd to authenticate to the outgoing server? Have you contacted the domain owners and asked if there are some special settings needed to use port 587? It might be worth suggesting to them, if they do not have settings that work for this port, that they should reconfigure their servers to allow it to catch up to the curve.


@harrydeem wrote:

And BTW, I don't quite understand the distinction of port 587 changeover. If Verizon (and/or other ISPs) want to switch to close port 25 and open port 587, then spammers will simply adjust their viruses to use port 587. Kindly enlighten me, if you can, why all this foofaraw. 


Explaining why the change on a deeper level can get very technical. It has to do with the type of authentication the clients use to connect on port 25 vs. on port 587. Port 587 requires an actual authentication, whereas 25 doesn't necessarily.

I hope this helps clear up some confusion.

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Re: Service unjustly downgraded first week of July, suspect conspiracy
harrydeem
Enthusiast - Level 3

[By the way, I appended a brief edit to my last post; did you see it? It matters.]


Thank you for the prompt reply, somegirl! You apparently have a good comfort level with all this technical stuff. That inspires confidence, so yes, thank you very much and kindly stay with this issue until there's some real resolution.

somegirl wrote:
This error message actually means that the server at All2Easy.net has refused the message. (See "Remote" SMTP server) Specifically, it is being rejected by mail.sentinelmail.net - This is something you should be able to have the people at All2Easy look at.


Hey, are you being dense or what? No offense, but All2easy.net is definitely NOT blocking emails from its own customers to its own support department. Unh-uh, I reject that supposition. There was no objectionable content in my message and I can't believe that content is even examined. I have no idea who or what is "mail.sentinelmail.net" but I had assumed they are some indifferent intermediary network service that might be employed by Verizon or All2easy -- not exactly sure.

somegirl wrote:
From what I'm seeing, it looks like email.all2easy.net is not configured to work with these particular settings.


That might be true but they are well-informed about this snag, as I have been keeping them abreast of developments. They had told me previously then when I see "No socket error" it pretty much always means that my ISP (Verizon DSL) isn't allowing me to connect.

somegirl wrote:
I hope this helps clear up some confusion.


Yes and no.

In my next post I intend to recap the situation.

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Recapping this thread
harrydeem
Enthusiast - Level 3


To recap the thread:

1. I am not unappreciative of Verizon's efforts on my behalf

2. I have a list of about 150 web sites and correspondents that expect to communicate with me at my pre-existing 3rd-party (All2easy.net) mailbox. I disdain the notion that I should tell each and every one of them that I am now to be found at a different address.

3. Call me small-minded but I don't wish to use All2easy.net's browser-based email system, which would circumvent the port 25 issue. I like Outlook Express, its features, its local storage of all my private correspondence, its proper handling of Read Receipts, etcetera; so I am loathe to abandon that email client.

4. I want my outgoing emails to bear my All2easy.net return address -- obviously. That is especially important for Read Receipts, however rarely they are requested.

5. If Verizon is earnestly trying to combat spam then kudos to them. But one poster in this thread suggested that Verizon is under no obligation to facilitate my use of a 3rd-party ISP's mail system. What baloney! That is the VERY service that I pay Verizon $33 per month to deliver. They are supposed to be 100% indifferent about who I send data packets to and whom I receive data packets from. That is their very assignment, to pass along data packets (unmolested) between internet-connected nodes, whoever and whatever those nodes might be.

6. I have had partial success at achieving my goals, by employing Verizon's outgoing server (and login) on port 25 for my outgoing All2easy.net emails. No other configuration of port# and server begets even the initial connection. The problem is that Verizon is only delivering my messages sent that way to select recipients and/or domains and not to others. I can't make out any clear rhyme or reason to the subset of recipients who get delivery versus the subset of recipients who are denied delivery.

That about sums it up.

Thanks for being there!

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Re: Service unjustly downgraded first week of July, suspect conspiracy
somegirl
Champion - Level 3

@harrydeem wrote:

Hey, are you being dense or what? No offense, but All2easy.net is definitely NOT blocking emails from its own customers to its own support department. Unh-uh, I reject that supposition. There was no objectionable content in my message and I can't believe that content is even examined. I have no idea who or what is "mail.sentinelmail.net" but I had assumed they are some indifferent intermediary network service that might be employed by Verizon or All2easy -- not exactly sure.


Agreed. All2Easy.net blocking mail from their own customers would be silly. That said, since you are using Verizon's outgoing servers and information, they would be blocking THAT server/address. The possible things they could be blocking are your specific verizon.net address, the entire verizon.net domain, the specific outgoing server that Verizon is using to deliver the message, or the IP address from which you are sending.

It is worth noting that if you have been sending large quantities of mail to their address in order to test this issue, you might "look" like a spammer to their system, and may have kicked in some sort of automated block. - This is guesswork on my part, since I know several email systems have these in place, but I am not familiar with All2Easy's systems at all.

Again, this is going to be a block on the All2Easy side. Their support *should* be able to look into this, but they will most likely need a copy of at least one complete bounceback message (the "Returned Undeliverable" message you keep getting) with full header information.

I realize this is all very confusing, several years ago I would have looked at this same problem and said, "Huh?!" I am trying my best to be clear, but feel free to let me know if you have any more questions. I like to help when I can.

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Re: Service unjustly downgraded first week of July, suspect conspiracy
harrydeem
Enthusiast - Level 3

You're probably right about sentinelmail.net being an intermediary service used by (I suspect) ALL2EASY. Maybe it is them to blame and not Verizon -- uh, maybe.

No, I wouldn't look like a spammer for the 2 or 3 dozen test emails I sent over a span of 2 months.

I visited mail.sentinelmail.com and was redirected to everyone.net when I clicked on "End User Services Agreement". There, I learned that up to 74% of email traffic is spam. As for blocking, they say, "Email spam filters can trap messages based on different criteria including a sender's email address, specific keywords in the message text or subject of the email, or by the kind of attachment with the message." So I was wrong about content not being examined.

I GIVE UP! (for now). It's just too convoluted. Eventually I'll again nudge the folks at All2easy, but I don't want to be an outright pest. The problem just isn't that devastating for me and my personal needs. I am not a business. Maybe someday things will clear up or become clearER.

You're a great helper, somegirl. Thanks!

When and if I learn more of this issue I may post here again. It's not resolved. All2easy.net, if they are the entity that employs the sentinelmail.net intermediary, what possible ---

Forget it; I just can't say any more. It makes no sense to speculate ad nauseum.

Some advanced guru needs to get to the bottom of this for us. if you're out there, guru, post here and now.

Bye

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Re: Service unjustly downgraded first week of July, suspect conspiracy
somegirl
Champion - Level 3

Not having an All2Easy account, I can't troubleshoot this on my own. Contacting support would most likely lead to a request for a bounceback as I said, and without a way to generate one that puts me at a dead end.

Looking at their site, I don't see any way to create an email address without buying the service. While I'll go pretty far to figure out a problem, this does not extend to paying for a service I don't need. Sadly, I don't have money just lying around waiting to be spent. (Which is really a shame. Smiley Wink)

Best of luck with getting this one resolved, though!

Re: Service unjustly downgraded first week of July, suspect conspiracy
harrydeem
Enthusiast - Level 3

Thanks, somegirl. Not to worry. I've sent All2easy support an email asking straight out and simply, are THEY the entity that employs this intermediary service at mail.sentinelmail.net. And I told them that if their answer is "no", then I will quit pestering them altogether about the issue and focus on the other side, Verizon. I also included the relevant text snippet from a bounce-back message for them to consider. That was yesterday and it'll likely take them a day or 2 more to reply. When they do, I'll know MUCH better where I stand.

And of course, if the issue remains unresolved after substantial time, and you want to volunteer your services, I'd be more than willing to secretly convey to you my All2easy login for your testing purposes. I can later change my password, once your efforts conclude.

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Re: Service unjustly downgraded first week of July, suspect conspiracy
somegirl
Champion - Level 3

Having seen firsthand the results of compromised email/internet/etc. acounts, I STRONGLY advise against offering ANYONE access to a personal account for any reason. I do not even give my password to support agents when I call in for help, as anyone who NEEDS my password will already have access to that information.

Not an attack on you personally, and not trying to imply that I'm untrustworthy. You know what they say about playing with fire though.

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