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google / youtube slow over fios. definitely verizon's fault (research inside), please fix

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mike1969
Bronze Contributor I
Bronze Contributor I
Posts: 62
Registered: ‎05-22-2011

Re: google / youtube slow over fios. definitely verizon's fault (research inside), please fix

Message 11 of 39
(6,215 Views)

Hi I live in PA as well and have the exact same problems with youtube you are describing and I  have FIOS 20/5. I was wondering is you also live in an MDU (multi-dwelling unit)/apartment building as I do, where we get our FIOS internet over the telephone line.

sbrudenell
Copper Contributor
Copper Contributor
Posts: 9
Registered: ‎06-07-2011

Re: google / youtube slow over fios. definitely verizon's fault (research inside), please fix

Message 12 of 39
(6,207 Views)

thanks for that.

 

http://www.dslreports.com/r3/smokeping.cgi?target=network.d8737730e60a9d7171215e82ba9b1b99.CA1

http://www.dslreports.com/r3/smokeping.cgi?target=network.d8737730e60a9d7171215e82ba9b1b99.NY

http://www.dslreports.com/r3/smokeping.cgi?target=network.d8737730e60a9d7171215e82ba9b1b99.KS

 

 

the above links show independent ping tests from 3 different sites to 152.179.50.106 over the last 24 hours. it does seem i was wrong that this router is continuously overloaded -- it seems to have 0 loss (green line) from 12am to 8am this morning.

 

however, you can still clearly see the packetloss is atrocious (purple / red line) during all other times of the day.

 

this loss is directly correlated with (though not a direct measurement of) performance of google / youtube from my fios connection -- i.e., unacceptable at most times of the day.

 

does verizon have any official response to this?

 

 

 

 

 

 

sbrudenell
Copper Contributor
Copper Contributor
Posts: 9
Registered: ‎06-07-2011

Re: google / youtube slow over fios. definitely verizon's fault (research inside), please fix

Message 13 of 39
(6,206 Views)

no, i'm in a single-family unit (i.e., a house). i have a verizon-installed NID on the side of my house: fiber goes in one side, and ethernet comes out the other.

 

this problem is unrelated to physical connections. my physical connection and my routing to the rest of the internet remain crystal clear and fantastically stable. my routing to google was similar before the last few months.

 

it's likely that this problem affects some percentage of all fios users in the northeastern united states -- there seem to be enough anecdotes around the internet to support this. dsl users may be affected too -- i expect this problem to be under-reported by dsl users, because it's easier for them (and forum contributors and techs) to blame trouble on the physical connection.

Dwooten76
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 1
Registered: ‎06-13-2011

Re: Google / youtube slow over fios. Definitely Verizon's fault (research inside), please fix

Message 14 of 39
(6,136 Views)

I have also noticed this problem with many Streaming sites and with Games that I play.  I have also googled and found this post plus many more complaints not listed here.  It sounds like to me that this is a major problem with many Verizon users across the US.  I wonder how long it will take to fix this problem and what type of reimbursement they will give.  I am loosing money out here because of this problem.  I am unable to buy the products and use them effectively because of these problems.

boom4u
Copper Contributor
Copper Contributor
Posts: 19
Registered: ‎09-10-2010

Re: Google / youtube slow over fios. Definitely Verizon's fault (research inside), please fix

Message 15 of 39
(6,077 Views)

they arent responsible for your financial loss so you will not be compensated, no ISP has ever been responsible for financial loss, if it is so important to you financially, you should have a backup PC, backup montiors, and a backup internet connection, this is your responsibility, not verizon's

 

pingtests barely count as research, they are examples of a problem occuring to you, valuable data in the right hands to be reviewed, probably not beneficial in a forum.

 

Ive worked at ISP's and cable plants, and various other internet related entities, for over 20 years...

sbrudenell
Copper Contributor
Copper Contributor
Posts: 9
Registered: ‎06-07-2011

Re: Google / youtube slow over fios. Definitely Verizon's fault (research inside), please fix

Message 16 of 39
(6,050 Views)

i never said financial loss.

 

i'm paying for a service and not receiving it. some packetloss is unavoidable, but 50% loss during daytime hours is totally unacceptable. this is in no way the service i'm paying for.

 

pinging one host from a single connection doesn't tell you much, true. that's why i tested the reachability of

 

 - the problem router

 - the hop before the problem router

 - google hosts behind the problem router

 - other google hosts not behind the problem router

 - other non-google hosts

 

all from

 

 - my fios connection

 - 3 other sites whene i have servers

 - 3 other sites using dslreports' smokeping

 

to try to isolate the problem.


the problem i see is that 99% of forum posts consist of "halp my conn iz bad its not my fault". so few of them have a real problem, and it's so hard to get them to provide useful information, that they're easy to ignore. my hope is to provide enough information to get the attention of the right people.

 

perhaps i provided too much information, since you don't seem to have read anything i wrote?

 

i counter your proof-by-authority argument with a challenge: tell me what you've seen in your 20 years of experience can explain my observations, other than an overloaded router verizon needs to fix. put your money where your mouth is.

 

the problem still persists, by the way.

Hubrisnxs
Platinum Contributor III
Platinum Contributor III
Posts: 5,881
Registered: ‎07-22-2009

Re: google / youtube slow over fios. definitely verizon's fault (research inside), please fix

Message 17 of 39
(6,045 Views)

@sbrudenell wrote:

thanks for that.

 

http://www.dslreports.com/r3/smokeping.cgi?target=network.d8737730e60a9d7171215e82ba9b1b99.CA1

http://www.dslreports.com/r3/smokeping.cgi?target=network.d8737730e60a9d7171215e82ba9b1b99.NY

http://www.dslreports.com/r3/smokeping.cgi?target=network.d8737730e60a9d7171215e82ba9b1b99.KS

 

 

the above links show independent ping tests from 3 different sites to 152.179.50.106 over the last 24 hours. it does seem i was wrong that this router is continuously overloaded -- it seems to have 0 loss (green line) from 12am to 8am this morning.

 

however, you can still clearly see the packetloss is atrocious (purple / red line) during all other times of the day.

 

this loss is directly correlated with (though not a direct measurement of) performance of google / youtube from my fios connection -- i.e., unacceptable at most times of the day.

 

does verizon have any official response to this?

 

 

 

 

 

 



The Verizon Community Forums are where customers help other customers. If you need assistance for specific Verizon account issues, please contact us.

 

 

 

@Remeber, these are community forums,  to get an official response - you may have to DM the Fios Twitter Supprt @ www.twitter.com/verizonsupport or the Direct Forums over at DSL reports.  or simply contact Verizon.  I would try the twitter and dslreports first, it feels like those are manned by higher level technicians.    Both are secure, and your privacy maintained.

houkouonchi
Copper Contributor
Copper Contributor
Posts: 10
Registered: ‎10-27-2010

Re: google / youtube slow over fios. definitely verizon's fault (research inside), please fix

Message 18 of 39
(5,997 Views)

Definitely verizon's fault? Unfortunately I don't think you understand some of the fundamentals how transit and the internet works (Even I don't claim to be an expert on this). This is likely googls over-saturating its transit to Verizon which Verizon could do nothing about or faulty hardware somewhere which google should either shut down the links with the problem and/or contact google to fix.

 

Just because the IP is owned by Verizon doesn't necesarily actually mean much that much; especially when its the IP before it hits google's network and doesn't for sure mean is VZ and not google. The fact is when you buy transit from a provider (like cogent, verizon, internap, AT&T, comcast, above.net, NTT, etc.. ) you will get one of their IP addresses which will be assigned to the border router so other people can route traffic to you and for setting up BGP/static routes, etc...

 

Here is an example when I traceroute to my work from Verizon:

 

traceroute to dreamhost.com (208.97.187.204), 30 hops max, 46 byte packets
 1  router.houkouonchi.jp (1.1.1.1)  0.193 ms  0.142 ms  0.506 ms
 2  L103.LSANCA-DSL-29.verizon-gni.net (71.110.63.1)  1.146 ms  0.960 ms  0.863 ms
 3  G0-3-1-7.LSANCA-LCR-22.verizon-gni.net (130.81.146.60)  1.941 ms  1.517 ms  2.401 ms
 4  so-6-0-0-0.LAX01-BB-RTR2.verizon-gni.net (130.81.29.126)  2.023 ms  2.015 ms  2.165 ms
 5  0.so-1-3-0.XL4.LAX15.ALTER.NET (152.63.114.149)  2.440 ms  2.368 ms  3.784 ms
 6  0.xe-11-0-0.BR1.LAX15.ALTER.NET (152.63.115.94)  2.164 ms  4.076 ms  2.421 ms
 7  te7-2.ccr02.lax05.atlas.cogentco.com (154.54.13.85)  2.316 ms  2.460 ms  2.388 ms
 8  te0-2-0-2.ccr21.lax01.atlas.cogentco.com (154.54.30.197)  2.846 ms  4.633 ms  3.957 ms
 9  te7-1.mpd03.lax01.atlas.cogentco.com (154.54.28.142)  3.226 ms  4.963 ms  3.517 ms
10  38.122.20.218 (38.122.20.218)  2.717 ms  5.225 ms  2.633 ms
11  ip-66-33-201-114.dreamhost.com (66.33.201.114)  3.568 ms  3.586 ms  5.171 ms
12  dreamhost.com (208.97.187.204)  3.298 ms  3.482 ms  3.631 ms

 

Ok so that 10th hop is still cogentco right? Its cogent's IP adress, If I saw a big latency spike and/or packetloss at that hop its gotta be cogentco's fault right?.. Nope! That is just the IP address cogent supplied us with. When I access it I just get our border router:

 

$ ssh 38.122.20.218
Password:

Alc-Border01#

 

My point is that its impossible to know for sure whos side fault lies but its most likely on google's end from the hop name. It is very possible that Google is simply pushing too much traffic on some of their routers and that is why there is an excessive amount of packetloss. That being said this is likely something that *both* google and Verizon will need to get involved with (likely goole needs to deal with VZ directly on this) as there is obviously a problem here between their two networks. Either way this certainly can't just be written off as VZ's problem simply because its VZ's IP address. That is like me saturating my connection causing 500ms latency and you guys complaining to VZ for the high latency to my server just because I am saturating it and running my link at capacity but it must be VZ's fault because they own the IP address.

 

Trust me if our cogent connection was at capacity you would be seeing packetloss on that 10th hop (38.122.20.218) just like you are right now to google on VZ.

Thunker
Copper Contributor
Copper Contributor
Posts: 5
Registered: ‎06-11-2011

Re: google / youtube slow over fios. definitely verizon's fault (research inside), please fix

Message 19 of 39
(5,962 Views)

"Just because the IP is owned by Verizon doesn't necesarily actually mean much that much; especially when its the IP before it hits google's network and doesn't for sure mean is VZ and not google."

 

This is just wrong. The IP is registered to verizon as a business class router.

 

It is their responsibilty and I as a customer of theirs cannot go anywhere on the Internet without passing through the overloaded piece of crap.

 

A network ahead....yea right!

rupok93
Copper Contributor
Copper Contributor
Posts: 21
Registered: ‎07-18-2010

Re: google / youtube slow over fios. definitely verizon's fault (research inside), please fix

Message 20 of 39
(5,959 Views)

I have been getting the same exact problem! Usually its not as bad as it has been for the last couple of weeks!

 

Before changing resolution or refressing the page worked but now it doesn't work at all. I thought it was just me but I asked my friend who also has fios and he has the same problem. We are in Jersey City, NJ,

 

 

Verizon and google PLEASE FIX THIS PROBLEM!!!

 

 

To the people saying its another problem, its not. When many people complain about the same problems with same situations its not an individuals fault.

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