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ECUnited
Copper Contributor
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Posts: 9
Registered: ‎03-25-2011

Re: without getting nasty...

Message 11 of 22
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Gerry, I'm having the same connectivity issues. How did you get them to upgrade from the Westell 6100 modem?  I'm having to power my modem off and on anywhere from 3-5 times a day.  I just spent the last hour trying to get the modem to connect, the DSL light just keeps blinking until it finally makes a good connection.  That's an every day event, and you never know if/when it's going to happen.

 

thanks,

Ed

Gerry_D
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Posts: 27
Registered: ‎10-02-2009

Re: without getting nasty...

Message 12 of 22
(1,818 Views)

 

Hi Ed,

I don't know if I covered it before, but it's like this....

We had cable modem when my son was living here as DSL was unavailable.

Then they made some sort of breakthrough and DSL was available at a slow speed.

We went to that. I started having connectivity issues so I put a timer on the power for my single port modem to shut it off at 3:AM for about 15 minutes and then come back on. That pretty much fixed things for several years, then last summer it was loosing lock all the time. They wouldn't help, so I upgraded to the 3 meg service. Then they sent me a new wireless modem and the problems continued. They eventually got better in the November December time frame. and started again a few weeks ago, finally another technician came to the house.

Since a previous technician put a filter outside the house and I had put a "home run" or single cable to the modem while all the phones in the house ran through one filter, he had removed the filter inside the house relying on the external filter and the "home run". This technician replaced the connection of the "home run" I had at a terminal block with a splice and did further testing.

He set up a "test device" like a modem in lieu of my modem and someone downtown took readings as well as him. Then back to my modem and it was less than desirable. He advised me on how to get a new modem and I followed his instructions.

Verizon sent me a single port modem as a replacement. Well I called them back and they said they would send a wireless 4-port replacement but had to charge me $15 for it. We discussed it and they gave me a $15 credit on my bill to offset it and instructed me to send the modem they erroneously sent back via UPS so I did.

With the new modem things were just as bad and then on a Sunday it dropped out completely at around 8:00 AM. I would get a DSL light but no internet light. I called my son to see if they put a hold on my account and he was able to log in as me with my password so there was no hold and my password was valid.

I called Verizon back and it was still out till the next day at about 3:30-4:00 PM, Monday.

I got a cryptic phone call from Verizon saying they found the problem and it was a network problem and it should be fixed.

All worked well for about a week and a half then it started again, I would loose lock and not get back on unless I powered down my modem several times.

 

No not knowing their setup, so only speculating here, but when a modem attempts to log in, it checks the account and sets up the up/down parameters for that account at a DSLAM. Then a handshake happens to negotiate best speed. Finally a connection is made and an IP address is given the to the modem account.

 

Where it goes south, is anybodies guess. But based on my experiences of getting a good download speed at times, it mostly rules out the wire between me and the central office. The wire doesn't change in a mater of hours and fix itself later on. So In My Humble Opinion, they have some sick equipment that they are reluctant to change because of budget restraints. The "sick equipment" could be a circuit card of a part of a circuit card that fails and they keep swapping them around. The problems get corrected and then later on fail again. In the government when we had to go out in the field and fix something we called that type "card chuckers". They swapped cards till things got better and never trouble shot the card down to the component level with a testing program that varied the applied voltages and signals to initiate a fault. We had some equipment that did this sort of testing on cards, I know I was one of the people that fixed that equipment.

 

But how to get a new modem? Try asking for one with wireless because you just got a wireless laptop!

 

My son set mine so when he visits he can access my internet through his phone. Yes mine is "locked down" with a password and such, but because the laptop I have is running Windows 2000, it has to use an older encryption method. No biggie.

Gerry_D
Nickel Contributor
Nickel Contributor
Posts: 27
Registered: ‎10-02-2009

Re: without getting nasty...

Message 13 of 22
(1,818 Views)

 

Another double post, but let me take advantage of it to post new stats after rebooting gateway...

 

Transceiver Statistics
Transceiver Revision              A2pB020b3.d20h
Vendor ID Code                      4D54
Line Mode                               ADSL_G.dmt
Data Path                                INTERLEAVED

 

Transceiver Information       Down Stream Path            Up Stream Path
DSL Speed (Kbits/Sec)            3360                                       608
Margin (dB)                                7.4                                         10.0
Line Attenuation (dB)               62.0                                          31.5
Transmit Power (dBm)             18.4                                         11.9

 

 

Speedtest.net

 

Ping  = 57 ms

download = 2.87 Mbps

 upload = 0.51 Mbps

 

 

Verizon speed test:
Broadband Speed Test
Analysis information:

Checking for Middleboxes . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Done
SendBufferSize set to [8192]
running 10s outbound test (client to server) . . . . . 347.34Kb/s
running 10s inbound test (server to client) . . . . . . 2.80Mb/s
Information: Network Middlebox is modifying MSS variable
Server IP addresses are preserved End-to-End
Information: Network Address Translation (NAT) box is modifying the Client's IP address
Server says {edited for privacy} but Client says [192.168.1.21]

 

Cordially,

Gerry

Smith6612
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Posts: 7,611
Registered: ‎12-15-2010

Re: without getting nasty...

Message 14 of 22
(1,808 Views)

If the attenuation is to be believed on your modem for distance, you're pretty much near the edge of DSL service itself which would be roughly 16,000ft. Truthfully you shouldn't have been let onto the 3Mbps package even though you're holding roughly 60% of the speed it has, and have been instead placed on 1.5Mbps with ADSL2+ to assist the line. The low margins are what would be causing the disconnects and speed drops. Maybe not now, but throughout the day as the line is affected by varying amounts of noise. Now, you are somewhat right about the line loop to the CO not changing completely as the day goes on, however the loop if it's not in the best of shape or has some noisy copper loops near it (T1s, maybe) that are only active during certain times of the day, that will also affect the DSL service.

 

This is the thing DSL has going for it. Not only is it distance sensitive, but just like Cable, it's dependant on how noisy the plant is. If the cabling isn't in the best of shape or varies in quality (such as gauge), the signal may be better or worse. The only way to know for sure how well DSL may perform is to look at Verizon's network engineering designs. They detail the copper types and where each splice and pedestal is.

 

So to conclude this post, it's best to see if you can keep working with Verizon to get the service improved. I believe the reason why you were able to get DSL in the first place is due to the fact that a year or two ago, Verizon bumped up the limits for speeds and connections on the DSL. So of course, this is pushing the DSL equipment harder on lines that "should not" have been hooked up at all either due to poor condition, very, very long loop lengths or just poor maintenance in general, or hooked into certain speeds. This doesn't mean there's faulty equipment, it just means they're simply pushing the known limits of DSL to try and get people hooked into a service. It's worked out well for people who can't get anything else, but for those switching from Cable and happened to be stuck on a shotty DSL line, it hasn't turned out so nicely. Ideally, what might be a solution to this problem is sometimes if it's length related Verizon can cut your circuit over to a nearby remote. Frontier does this in my area to people in certain circumstances (such as their neighbor can get DSL thanks to a remote, but the next house over is running off of a different trunk line fed from the CO). They don't to it a lot due to how complex some cases may be, but if Verizon can find a way to push you onto a remote, that might help a ton.

Gerry_D
Nickel Contributor
Nickel Contributor
Posts: 27
Registered: ‎10-02-2009

Re: without getting nasty...

Message 15 of 22
(1,807 Views)

For what it's worth, I found this on "Frontier Internet Service"!

How's come Verizon don't explain things like this?

 

Westell 6100

Transceiver Statistics

 

The Westell 6100 allows you to view the Transceiver Statistics. This is a readout of the quality of your line, and mentions values such as Attenuation, Margin (also known as the Signal to Noise ratio or SNR), Transmit powers, line speed, as well as line modes such as FastPath, Interleaved, or G.DMT mode.

On older versions of the Westell 6100 such as the Rev. D, the transceiver statistics page can be located at http://192.168.1.1/transtat.htm assuming you have not changed the IP address of the Westell. On newer versions of the Westell 6100, you can find the statistics at http://192.168.1.1/htmlV/transtat.asp assuming you have not changed the IP address of the Westell. Please take note that a Username and Password may be required to view these statistics.

A readout of the Transceiver Statistics will look like the following:

 

Transceiver Statistics

 

Transceiver Revision:  7.2.3.0
 Vendor ID Code:  4
 Line Mode:  G.DMT Mode
 Data Path:  Fast
 

 

 
  

Transceiver Information  Downstream Path     Upstream Path  

DSL Speed (Kbits/Sec)    1184                          448

Margin (dB)                        22.5                          21.0

Line Attenuation (dB)          40.0                         22.5

Transmit Power (dBm)         7.3                          10.1

 

 

Understanding what these values mean;

 

Line Mode: This indicates the form of ADSL technology being used. Generally, it will display G.DMT mode, or if you are on a newer DSLAM, it might display a mode such as ADSL2 or ADSL2+.

 

Data Path: This value shows if your line is in Interleaved or Fast mode. Interleaved mode will increase latency on the line, but it will however make the line more stable over longer distances. Fast will give you very low latency and may offer a slight speed increase, but at the expense of possible errors on the line. This is a suitable line mode for gamers.

 

DSL Speed: This value indicates the current line speed of your modem on both the downstream and upstream. These are theoretical speeds, not the actual speeds you will receive due to ATM, PPP, and other overhead that occurs due to data transmission. In this example, this DSL line is capable of holding 1.04Mbps or 1004Kbps of data after overhead on the downstream, and 390Kbps or roughly .4Mbps on the upstream.

 

Margin: This is your Signal-to-noise ratio. This gives you a gauge on how well your line is running. A higher margin is better. Generally, DSL can operate down to 6dB of margin, after which it begins to have trouble maintaining the signal. Ideally, the margin should be above 10dB but Frontier prefers to keep the margin at 14dB or higher to leave head room for variances in line condition.

 

The margin is affected by your line speed, line quality, line length as well as any unwanted noise on the line. The longer the line, the higher the speed, or the poorer/more noisy the line, the lower the margin tends to be.

 

Attenuation: This is a measure of how much the DSL signal is being weakened while it is traveling from the DSLAM to your modem, or from your modem to the DSLAM depending on which value you are looking at. Generally, this value is affected mostly by line condition as well as line length, but it can also be affected by wire gauge, higher gauge wiring resulting in higher attenuation over shorter distances. Ideally, the upstream attenuation should be half of the downstream, however someone who is experienced with reading these statistics can help you discover any possible issues, if any exist.

 

Transmit Power: This value, measured in dBm shows how much power is needed to maintain the DSL connection at its current state. Lower isn’t always better, however it is preferred. This value is determined by the DSLAM and modem at sync.

 

 

Cordially,

Gerry

Gerry_D
Nickel Contributor
Nickel Contributor
Posts: 27
Registered: ‎10-02-2009

Re: without getting nasty...

Message 16 of 22
(1,805 Views)

Let me ponder that for a while Mr Smith, LOL this old brain ain't at peak efficiency anymore.

 

What you say make a heck of a lot of sense.,

 

Darn it, there was another thought I had to add, but it's not getting to the forefront of my feeble mind right now. LOL

 

Smith6612
Platinum Contributor III Platinum Contributor III
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Posts: 7,611
Registered: ‎12-15-2010

Re: without getting nasty...

Message 17 of 22
(1,800 Views)

I actually wrote that guide by the way 😄 . As to why Verizon doesn't write it like that, I'm assuming it's due to the fact that they offer tech support and don't wish to be confusing users. When I write up my guides, I try my best to make it so that anyone can follow them and they are often tested to make sure they are working at the time of writing them. On my free time I'm a tech support guy for anyone who needs it. During the day, I'm dealing with computers, networks, you name it, often for days on end with no rest. But really, I have no way to explain it. But heck I'm on vacation right now and look at what I'm doing, lol. I've been helping people out despite dealing with shoddy Wi-Fi connections, the resort's DSL connection from Verizon constantly dropping (IT said it was a humidy issue with the lines out here) making me use the resort's Cable connection on a more broken part of their network, getting IT out to repair an Ethernet connection in my room that someone had damaged (Staple gun as they suggested) and using a Verizon MiFi Hotspot I was loaned in case I needed it eating away at 900MB of a 5GB cap within an hour.

Gerry_D
Nickel Contributor
Nickel Contributor
Posts: 27
Registered: ‎10-02-2009

Re: without getting nasty...

Message 18 of 22
(1,792 Views)

 

LOL!!!

 

Networking was not my job function before I retired, I worked as a field service technician, after years on the bench, with tactical satellite terminals, AN/TSC-85s & 93s, later on I worked with EQUATE and finally before retirement I was doing quick response test fixture design and fabrication, it would take about a half year minimum to get a program and interface made for some circuit cards, I was able to design and build some test fixtures in about a month's time for each. All told, about a dozen besides working with engineers to debug their designs. LOL

 

For the most part now I put the technical "crap" behind me and mostly help out in a handyman forum.

 

Prolly for the same reasons you do, the fun of it!

 

Cordially,

Gerry

Gerry_D
Nickel Contributor
Nickel Contributor
Posts: 27
Registered: ‎10-02-2009

Re: without getting nasty...

Message 19 of 22
(1,792 Views)

OK, now I remember what I wanted to mention...

 

Neighbor behind me never resets his modem, his boys use it for gaming and I believe his speed is better than mine!

This weekend I'll get over his house and get some stats on his.

He's about 50' away from my house!

Maybe I should chuck my DSL and run a cat-5 cable over to his house!

 

 LOL

 

 

Smith6612
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Platinum Contributor III
Posts: 7,611
Registered: ‎12-15-2010

Re: without getting nasty...

Message 20 of 22
(1,786 Views)

Lol, and you're right. I enjoy doing what I do, helping people out and solving problems that arise when I can. If I didn't like what I was doing, I obviously wouldn't be taking part in a technology field for a living! Anyways, I'd be interested in seeing your neighbor's statistics. If they are much better, it'll hold some weight in getting your line fixed. I myself am a gamer as well, and besides running my line maxed quite often, I usually notice disconnects and trouble almost the second that they happen. Nothing like being in the middle of a game of Team Fortress 2 at 4AM in the morning and suddenly lagging out with 500ms latency to my web server (which runs game servers) during a maintenance period!

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